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 Posted - June 19 2022 : 7:12:25 PM
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So I was running one of my Mantua 2-8-2 Mikado steam locomotives for about 20 minutes, and all was well, until it suddenly stoppedon the tracks. At first I assumed it might be a powerpack issue (as the green power indicator light was off also), so I tried unplugging it, and putting another locomotive on the tracks once the Mikado was removed, and the powerpack worked fine. But the Mikado wouldn't budge.
I then tested it on my test track connected to a different powerpack, but got the same result. Lastly, I used 2 wires and put power to the brass contact wheels on the trucks and to the non-insulated side of driver wheels/ then power to the tender-to-motor wire and non-insulated side of driver wheels, but the motor didn't work. I did, however, get some arcing wherever the wires were placed (i.e. the tender truck brass wheels, non-insulated side of driver wheels, tender-to-motor wire) like when power is being applied to the same side, electrically.
So what happened? Is the motor or magnet bad? Has anyone else ever experienced this. Bare in mind this Mikado (Ephrata Valley #46) has the original Mantua magnet in it, and brass tender truck wheels - this locomotive has also been used quite frequently and is fully serviced/tuned up.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - June 19 2022 : 9:13:48 PM
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Old Tyco/Mantua locomotives are hard to kill. They do not usually just die without warning. I would bet the motor is good.
Has the running gear locked up? There should be some small rotation play in the drive wheels. If locked up then look for loose screws in the connecting rods; or you may need to adjust the motor mount.
Remove the shell. Inspect wiring rubs creating a short. Inspect tension on the worm gear. You can rotate the worm gear by hand to test for binding.
Test the motor by applying current for a short time interval directly to brushes. Reverse the leads and try again.
Remove the motor, clean the commutator and lightly oil the bearings.
Edited by - offtrackthoroughbred on June 19 2022 9:17:49 PM
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Posted - June 19 2022 : 9:33:00 PM
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quote:Old Tyco/Mantua locomotives are hard to kill. They do not usually just die without warning. I would bet the motor is good.
Has the running gear locked up? There should be some small rotation play in the drive wheels. If locked up then look for loose screws in the connecting rods; or you may need to adjust the motor mount.
Remove the shell. Inspect wiring rubs creating a short. Inspect tension on the worm gear. You can rotate the worm gear by hand to test for binding.
Test the motor by applying current for a short time interval directly to brushes. Reverse the leads and try again.
Remove the motor, clean the commutator and lightly oil the bearings.
Originally posted by offtrackthoroughbred-June 19 2022: 9:13:48 PM
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I agree - nothing is binding as far as the rod assembly/direct drive gears are concerned. The commutator is clean.
I will take the diecast boiler off and put direct power to the brushes, and see what happens. While I'm doing so I'll check the wiring.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - June 20 2022 : 01:24:53 AM
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There must be a short circuit in there somewhere. I'd disconnect the tender, take the motor out and check each part with the electrical leads. It should be an easy fix once the problem part is found.
Darth Santa Fe, doing weird and challenging projects for the fun of it!
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Posted - June 20 2022 : 12:19:35 PM
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If the motor is bad, you can get a replacement can motor from NorthWest SHortLine for about $40.
I have a Tyco pacific that died like this and it's currently at a friends getting remotored. I will post its performance figures here when I get it back. I suspect it will outpull all my other steamers when it is done.
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Posted - June 21 2022 : 10:08:30 PM
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Great News!
Tonight I worked on Mikado #46, and upon taking the boiler off, I realized the headlight wire was loose - my previous solder job obviously wasn't that good. What I assume happened is that the headlight wire touched either the diecast boiler or the tender-to-motor wire, causing the locomotive to short out (because with the headlight wire off, the motor ran perfectly fine.)
I soldered the headlight wire back into place, put everything back together, and EVRR #46 is once again riding the rails. Thanks again, all, for the suggestions and advice.
https://youtu.be/RqTT3a6CclE
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - June 22 2022 : 2:04:07 PM
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| Had similar problem with a Mantua Talgo engine I had re-motored. It just suddenly stopped dead while the passenger cars remained lighted. Worried about cooking parts, I had made a cold solder connection that had broken free. I made a loop in the wire before soldering it back on; hoping to relieve stress around corners.
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Posted - June 22 2022 : 9:21:26 PM
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quote:Had similar problem with a Mantua Talgo engine I had re-motored. It just suddenly stopped dead while the passenger cars remained lighted. Worried about cooking parts, I had made a cold solder connection that had broken free. I made a loop in the wire before soldering it back on; hoping to relieve stress around corners.
Originally posted by offtrackthoroughbred-June 22 2022: 2:04:07 PM
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Ah, there you go. That is a good idea, especially for a Talgo model train, I imagine.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - June 26 2022 : 9:14:35 PM
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So it turns out the motor is actually...bad. Today #46 only ran for about 10 minutes before it stopped again suddenly. It ran a bit in reverse, and then stopped once again. I took it apart again, and put 2 wires to the motor, where it worked for a bit, and then slowed down and stopped. There is nothing wrong with the rods/valve gear, gear mesh, or wiring. I replaced the magnet with a new neodymium one, which aided a bit, but ultimately, the motor must just have gone bad.
It actually reminds me of what occurred to the old, rusty motor I "restored" while piecing my Mantua Berkshire back together....I had similar issues, which were all resolved when I did a motor swap.
Until I find and upgrade to a better motor, EVRR 2-8-2 #46 is in the shops.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - June 26 2022 : 9:49:55 PM
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quote:So it turns out the motor is actually...bad. Today #46 only ran for about 10 minutes before it stopped again suddenly. It ran a bit in reverse, and then stopped once again. I took it apart again, and put 2 wires to the motor, where it worked for a bit, and then slowed down and stopped. There is nothing wrong with the rods/valve gear, gear mesh, or wiring. I replaced the magnet with a new neodymium one, which aided a bit, but ultimately, the motor must just have gone bad.
It actually reminds me of what occurred to the old, rusty motor I "restored" while piecing my Mantua Berkshire back together....I had similar issues, which were all resolved when I did a motor swap.
Until I find and upgrade to a better motor, EVRR 2-8-2 #46 is in the shops.
Originally posted by RP model railroads - June 26 2022 : 9:14:35 PM
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Yeah, that happens sometimes. Thankfully, it's not too hard to find replacements (modern and original) thanks to how Mantua designed these things (they designed most of their steam engines in the 50's and 60's to use the same motor, more or less). I have one of Mantua's Mikados, and it's a surprisingly good runner, even before I did any sort of cleaning or lubrication. Seems like you may have just had a bit of bad luck on this motor, which I've had happen myself.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - June 27 2022 : 10:52:55 AM
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If the motor runs strong at first when cold but overheats then a possibility is unseen carbon buildup accumulated between the commutator plates and is causing unproductive current draw. Windings may be good but as the commutator gets hot it draws even more current until it effectively shorts out. It can get hot enough to melt solder connections to the windings. Since you have nothing to loose, try your favorite solvent along with using an exacto knife tip and "dig out" the spaces between the commutator plates.
Edited by - offtrackthoroughbred on June 27 2022 10:59:29 AM
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Posted - June 27 2022 : 3:59:46 PM
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| That photo belongs in the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
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Posted - June 27 2022 : 9:19:32 PM
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kovacste000: Yeah, I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for a modern motor replacement. Very true - Mantua steam locomotives are extremely reliable and easy to work on. 
offtrackthoroughbred: I will definitely check the spaces between the commutator plates. Thanks!
Chops: Why thank you.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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