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 Posted - November 09 2020 : 3:06:45 PM
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Got the micro layout, Harte's Mill back from the museum today, yay! Everything survived.
Now I'm laying out Harte's Mill II and am excited to use some design concepts. Borrowing
a bit from Erik's two layer wedding cake baseboard, I am going to construct the track plan
using almost entirely curves, both fifteen inch and 18 inch to take advantage of the short
wheel base of the Old West rolling stock. The result mill be sinuous passage up grades and
through steep canyons. A train looks most interesting when it is negotiating a curve
or climbing a grade. Dimensions will be on a hollow core door 40 inches by 60 inches using a
Styrofoam sub base to be able to easily create geological features; one river, at least one
bridge, maybe more. All told, it will not have more than 18 inches of straight, but rather be
a coiled obstacle course.
This is the old Harte's Mill:
https://youtu.be/0D9OSgz5xTg
This will be the new Harte's Mill:
I got some cool plans for old Harte's Mill I, and it will either get a planting of winter trees and snow
and become the new micro layout for the Camboy and Amboy 1835 (featuring the John Bull), or
possibly a growth of palm trees and become a Floridian backwater branchline.
If it goes to Camden and Amboy, it will have the trestles replaced with stone arches.
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Posted - November 09 2020 : 3:37:02 PM
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Yay! I am honored that you are using my idea 
Can't wait to see it!
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Posted - November 09 2020 : 5:43:47 PM
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Awesome, I cant wait to see your progress!
Wheres the new jupiter?
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Posted - November 09 2020 : 7:41:06 PM
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Might want to do a bit of testing, before you build, regarding maximum grades around a curve for your engines and expected trains. Curves and grades cut the tonnage rating drastically, and your engines are small.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - November 09 2020 : 8:14:08 PM
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Will do, thanks. The sharp 15 inch curve, compounded by a gradient,
is going to significantly increase the drag. I am predicting a three car
consist should be able to do it without overtaxing the locomotive. If
the test fails, I have the option of extending the length out a foot, or
even two, to lessen the grade. Going to try to have the incline go
over the maximum distance in the contained space, the bigger trick
is to have just enough clearance for those tall diamond stacks to
slide under the bridge.
I am looking at squeezing in a stub
spur at the base, but that will be determined by the ability of the
locomotives, Bachmann, and Pola, to negotiate the frog without
stalling.
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Posted - November 09 2020 : 9:43:42 PM
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Good luck with this project, Chops! Keep us posted.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/rpmodelrailroads
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Posted - November 09 2020 : 10:23:34 PM
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I will start, and stick with, a single thread title, this one, when I get to
laying track. It will be phun combing a little trial-and-error physics with
1/87. Got to be careful with the gradients- don't want to roast any
motors! The New Jupe is safely back on the shelf, in her box, waiting
for some track to be laid down. The Old Jupe, fixed for the Lincoln
Funeral train, has a piece of RC fuel tubing to replace the stripped out
drive shaft, and will hopefully negotiate the 15 inch minimum radius.
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Posted - November 10 2020 : 09:35:49 AM
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| awesome! Perhaps you could repaint the old Jupiter....
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Posted - November 10 2020 : 11:37:28 AM
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| Hmmm, that could be an idea. What might you suggest?
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Posted - November 10 2020 : 11:44:50 AM
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quote:Hmmm, that could be an idea. What might you suggest?
Originally posted by Chops124Â -Â November 10 2020Â :Â 11:37:28 AM
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I believe lionel made a rendition of the funeral train. I remember the locomotive being green, brown, red, with silver and gold. A simple google search may result in some good photos.
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Posted - November 10 2020 : 12:36:12 PM
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quote: quote:Hmmm, that could be an idea. What might you suggest?
Originally posted by Chops124Â -Â November 10 2020Â :Â 11:37:28 AM
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I believe lionel made a rendition of the funeral train. I remember the locomotive being green, brown, red, with silver and gold. A simple google search may result in some good photos.
Originally posted by BlaxlandAlex3Â -Â November 10 2020Â :Â 11:44:50 AM
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Pocher did make the funeral car in HO 
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Posted - November 10 2020 : 1:41:46 PM
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I know, I believe he has one 
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Posted - November 10 2020 : 3:57:01 PM
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Pictures of a model of the funeral train made by a modeler who probably researched the thing pretty thoroughly:
http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/news/train.htm
Chemical analysis of old paint chips show the funeral car to be a bit more of a dark maroon than the "chocolate brown" of historical accounts. At the time, candy bars were as yet not invented and chocolate meant a redder sort of "Dutch chocolate."
Carpe Manana!
Edited by - scsshaggy on November 10 2020 4:00:01 PM
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Posted - November 10 2020 : 4:19:46 PM
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Wow, that is some interesting history, I like that kind of stuff. Dark maroon
sounds just about right. My reading is that the coach was originally built,
alas, as an armored coach. I read the original coach burned to the trucks
around the turn of the century and a repro was eventually constructed.
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Posted - November 10 2020 : 4:56:30 PM
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| I think there's a replica of the lincoln funeral train car at the museum in Duluth Minnesota
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Posted - November 10 2020 : 7:52:00 PM
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quote:I think there's a replica of the lincoln funeral train car at the museum in Duluth Minnesota
Originally posted by Erik The Train Nerd - November 10 2020 : 4:56:30 PM
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I saw it there. It was originally built at the Kloke Locomotive Works in Elgin, IL. Dave Kloke the owner took it on the road during the sesquicentennial year of Lincoln's Assassination. The last place he took it was Duluth, and it ended up being there long after it was scheduled to leave. When it was making the rounds, the line to tour it was terribly long, and I was thinking of touring it in Galesburg, IL, but I had a bus to catch. Later in Duluth, there was no line and I practically had a private tour. Often, I get lucky.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - November 10 2020 : 8:08:51 PM
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| its a really neat museum and the train ride is fun too!
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Posted - November 10 2020 : 9:54:09 PM
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I liked Duluth, went through there thirty years ago, when
the sun didn’t set until like 10 pm. I’ll look around, though
I do like your rendition. My impression is the funeral train
added or changed coaches as it proceeded. Don’t know if
that was to honor the state, or line, upon which it traveled,
or mechanical issues. Be interesting to know how that
went down.
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Posted - November 11 2020 : 03:00:21 AM
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http://railroadboy.com/grade/
Just came across this useful tool. Perhaps my guesstimation is not in line with
reality, as suggested by SCSS, when I feed the tabulator some numbers I get
Things like 10% on the gradient. The recommended gradient is a max of 4 %,
With a max of 2% being preferred.
But, part of the phun is working with it and seeing what flies. Using Eric’s
bilevel sub-baseboard would still be advantageous if the tracks have to be separated
to eliminate a too steep grade.
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Posted - November 11 2020 : 11:48:58 AM
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quote:I know, I believe he has one
Originally posted by BlaxlandAlex3Â -Â November 10 2020Â :Â 1:41:46 PM
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I has TWO! 
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Posted - November 28 2020 : 10:23:21 PM
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Laying out the dimensions with track, quickly found there is no such
thing, at least easily available as 40 inch wide hollow core, so using
left over piece with two sides of plywood to span the desired area,
finding that Shaggy is right, the up and over elevation may be to
extreme. Daily Savings has me more tired than usual, so going to
bed early and take a run at this tomorrow.
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Posted - November 29 2020 : 7:11:02 PM
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Not much of a computer guy. Computers sometimes seem to do whatever they want when they want and
all I can do is stare. So, no SCARM here. Put in about six hours of setting and resetting the track. The up
and over method was too jenky, and I am not too fond of giving my Pola, and Bachmanns any extra work
struggling up a grade, so the lower deck is half 18 inch, half 15 inch to fit into a 33 by 69 inch rectangle.
Originally, I hoped to fit it all in a 30 inch by 48 inch rectangle, but without resorting to flex track, and
bending the life out of it, this wasn't going to work. Plus, from experience I've learned that below 15 inches
of radius, one is really tempting the derailment gods, although I have managed to barely wring a Bachmann
PCC through nine inches of curve, but very little else. Even the Bachmann Cable Car won't suffer a nine
inch curve, nor a 4 wheel AHM trolley. I do know from the prior Hartes Mill I layout an American Type will
squeal through, but any defects in track will throw it up in a second.
Initally the plan was to use a 36 by 48 inch section of hollow core door, sturdy and nice and light. Very
good for a complete N scale layout. Wanting to make it fit in the back of my Accent, whenever this Chinese Plague dampens down, to a train show, it will still foot. But, a door is like $76, and I could find none at a
lumber salvage yard. So, I took the remaining piece of door on hand and slabbed two pieces of spare
plywood upon it to create a table. The center is depressed, but will be covered by a sheet of cheap foam
insulation. With the left over insulation I will be utilizing Eric the Train Fan's wedding cake layer to create
a wholly seperate circuit that will pass over the lower figure 8. Two train operation without danger of
collission. A little stub spur was thrown down to see what it might do, on the upper tier.
After rearranging 15 and 18 inch radii half the night, and half the day, I remembered that this crazy
Mehano set I'd bought a while back came with not only a complete set of figure track, but also a track plan
to go with it. I pulled that off the shelf, and using the track plan as a guide got down to laying down
sectional pieces to creat an 18 inch radius figure 8 for the lower tier. Low and behold, even working off
a factory track plan, the second loop of the figure 8 was about a full nine inches wider than the first loop, which
fit nicely.
So, that being the case, the second loop was built using fifteen inch radii, and the upper loop with almost all
15 inch radii to fit on the inside of the 18 inch radius. Finally it all lined up, but I had to extend out the
"straight" sections of baseboard to make it all fit.
The plywood sections will be screwed to the hollow core foundation. The entire affair can be set up on any small
table. It will require two power packs. Fine, at least I got what I wanted.
Hopefully, tonight, I won't be so tired as to not fire up the DCC Jupiter for a test run.
With regards to scenery, my first thought was to go out and grab some El Paso dirt, but then realized I've already done three El Paso themed layouts, and I'd really like to try my hand at some of that Denver scenery.
I love Denver West, and go there whenever the chance turns up. Fourteen hours by automobile, some of it through the wastelands of New Mexico, where ramming an elk is a real possibility, then through the plains of Southern Colorado. To get there by train, I'd have to take Amtrak from El Paso, to Dallas, then to Chicago, and then back south to Denver. Three days. Which I wouldn't mind at all, if I had that much free time, which I rarely do, except when between jobs, when I have no money. So, I fly and I'm there in 90 minutes. Then take the excellent light rail into Golden, where it really starts to get scenic (apologies to Red Rocks, which is fab).
So, I am going to eventually work up some dramatic Golden, CO scenery towering over the tracks, and have the upper deck train cling to a cliffside like the most gorgeous Durango & Silverton line above the Animas river. One, or both, as both areas have differences in geology.
Then, if I get bored of running 1880 stuff, I can swap in some standard gauge Shay or two. The structures of Gold Rush Colorado didn't change much from 1880 to 1920. I figure around six months to a year of on again, off again work until it is show ready.
So, here is a photo of what I hope to be the final track plan, in all its squigglatude. Trains, particularly short ones, like what I will be running, look most interesting as they weave in and around geologic obstructions, a
frequent fact of railroading in old Colorado.
(If you've never made it out to CO, add it to your to-do list. It is breathtaking in its beauty, and no wonder why it was the favorite of Model Railroader articles for years and years).
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Posted - November 29 2020 : 9:03:55 PM
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| Can't wait to see your progress
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Posted - November 29 2020 : 10:30:23 PM
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Looks awesome, Chops!
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - November 29 2020 : 11:55:56 PM
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quote:Can't wait to see your progress
Originally posted by RealBnsfIAÂ -Â November 29 2020Â :Â 9:03:55 PM
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Me too. 
OK, put in some initial foam runners for the upper level. The Jupiter is 2 inches from rail head to
top of stack, the runners bring it in at 3 inches. The left overpass will be a tunnel, the right gap
a trestle bridge, but will probably extend the length along the sinuous curvature.
Scrap packing Styrofoam will be used to build up skeleton of the butte and the mesa that will dominate
the center area. Using a heated kitchen knife to slice off sections of the runners to make them fit
better.
I've done a couple scratch timber trestles before, one quite large, and they are surprisingly easy to build.
All that is required is making a couple of jigs out of balsa and they can be punched out like cup cakes. Trimming
to fit is pretty easy. In the past I'd glue the top of the trestle to the bottom ties, and build the plaster scenery
cloth up to the level of the base, as needed. Then set the stringers and was down with a stain. Probably use a razor pen to add black dots for bolt heads.
To dominate the trains, the height of the mesa and the butte are going to have to be about two feet, top to
bottom, at minimum. Eric the Train Fan used, I think, built up stratum of ceiling tile to create a good rough
cliff face. I've done that before, but I need to keep the weight down as this unit is going to have to be portable, so I'm probably going to be doing some plaster casts, which will be probably as heavy, unless I minimize the
cliff faces? Beginning to wonder now. The butte will require some vertical level of striation, as well, the mesa,
the sides can be more crumbly. Again, weight is going to be an issue.
Any suggestions for modifications and/or geological features???
Whole house stinks of roasted Styrofoam now. Blech.
Edited by - Chops124 on November 30 2020 12:54:23 AM
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Posted - November 30 2020 : 07:13:00 AM
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| woah! Looking great!
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Posted - November 30 2020 : 08:28:23 AM
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Cool! As far as geological features, perhaps a stream coming out of the rock and/or mountainside....
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - November 30 2020 : 09:48:23 AM
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| What I did is that I took a piece of Styrofoam and then took a hand saw and then saw the edges off at an angle to create a sort of slope then I painted it
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Posted - December 01 2020 : 10:15:00 AM
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Good to know. Your Mom wouldn't be happy, but I took a kitchen
knife, heated it on the stove, and used it to slice. Kind of kills the
knife and stinks up the house for a while, but I understand there
are electric Styrofoam cutters at Hobby Lobby type places that
are more civilized. Definitely going to have some water effects,
still figuring out the foundation of the baseboard, not as simple
as first thought, but fixable. The key is to not get too heavy.
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Posted - December 01 2020 : 5:36:22 PM
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| no my mom would not like that! I will probably buy one of those foam cutters when I do a new layout someday in the future
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Posted - December 01 2020 : 7:29:05 PM
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quote:no my mom would not like that! I will probably buy one of those foam cutters when I do a new layout someday in the future
Originally posted by Erik The Train Nerd - December 01 2020 : 5:36:22 PM
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I had one of the battery operated ones
and I also build my own
they take some practice but you can do some decent carving with them
some people use them to build planes
not model ones either
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Posted - December 14 2020 : 12:19:29 AM
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Work has been slow, but a little progress on Mormon's Gulch, thus far. Finished up the baseboard
which is made up of 1/2 inch plywood sections affixed to 2x1's for a little rigidity, with a foam
overlay. The second tier is made up strips of Styrofoam to support the upper level. The essential
concept is plagiarized from Eric the Train Fan. There will be one stub spur on the upper level,
I didn't want to complicate it with a bunch of interchanges and grades that invite derailments.
There's going to be at least one decent tunnel on the right, and two timber trestles and one
steep gorge, at least. Some modelers go to great lengths to plan stuff out. I'm no fan of planning.
Every plan I ever made ends up in a heap, so I like to tweak and fiddle as I go.
Edited by - Chops124 on December 14 2020 12:20:29 AM
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Posted - December 14 2020 : 08:30:42 AM
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Looking good, Chops. I too do not use plans.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - December 14 2020 : 09:44:43 AM
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| I never use plans they always turn into a big mess!
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Posted - December 14 2020 : 11:23:39 AM
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| I'd love to see all of the old time engines you plan to run on there!
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Posted - December 14 2020 : 11:25:24 AM
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Posted - December 15 2020 : 6:43:40 PM
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Starting on the skeleton of what's going to become a butte. In the foreground will be a mesa.
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Posted - December 15 2020 : 10:13:53 PM
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That's gonna be epic!!! I can just see that getting painted orange.......
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Bamos
Big Six
Status:
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Posted - December 19 2020 : 5:56:04 PM
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Nice Chops I like to keep thing pretty simple too no grades on my layout. Not to be nit picky but is that a
slight kink in the track where the orange cap is by the scented candle I am seeing?
One of the techniques i use is to take pictures of all my track work after laying, the camera finds everything I
may have slightly out of alignment
Bill
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Posted - December 20 2020 : 8:42:03 PM
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A very good point, and yes, I've had to go back and relay
some of the track after seeing photos of it.
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Posted - December 27 2020 : 12:37:06 AM
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Having relaid some the track, and added a thin plywood cross member to glue down the center
Styrofoam, both locomotives track well. Assembled more of the butte, which is a bit like arranging
a house of cards. The Gorilla Glue is very slow to set, but doesn't dissolve the foam. I might go
back in there and break some bamboo skewers in half to better stabilize them.
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Posted - December 27 2020 : 01:00:04 AM
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| Very Nice! I love the butte/mesa formation. Are you going to coat it in scultpamold/plaster or leave it as is?
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Posted - December 27 2020 : 09:05:41 AM
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Lovin' it.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/rpmodelrailroads
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Posted - December 29 2020 : 02:44:12 AM
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Mormon's Gulch. The foam insert that came from my daughter's new computer desk
is amazingly easy to carve, and unlike Styrofoam, doesn't require a hot blade nor
leave a bunch of foam pebbles to deal with. And there is a ton of it. The butte, the
canyons, and the mesa are taking shape. Foam tack glue and bamboo skewers hold
things in place while drying.
Over this I'll likely use wetted down newspaper to round out the sharp edges, and over
that, if all goes well, plaster cloth. If newspaper doesn't hold enough rounded shape,
I will try brown paper.
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Posted - December 29 2020 : 3:05:55 PM
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Lookin good!
Is that a fully elevated track I see?
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Posted - December 29 2020 : 3:44:33 PM
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Yes, exactly. I first saw that technique on one of your later layouts,
a logging themed elevation, which I tried to imitate as an Elevated
for a second trolley line. That didn't work out as well as hoped, but
later I saw Eric the Train Fan using a similar technique of a two tiered
layout, and I put that to us here. The lower tier is a figure 8, the upper
a basic oval with spur and pair of spots for bridges.
It will be plastered up, using plaster cloth, and additional rock formations
using plaster castings. The effort is towards more realism, as opposed to
the 1970's look of Armadilloville. The plaster will add a ton of weight to
this, but can't be helped.
Edited by - Chops124 on December 29 2020 3:46:55 PM
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Posted - December 29 2020 : 8:45:28 PM
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| Jeff- one thing you could do to save money (and a bit of weight) is use auto-shop towels (you know, the blue ones) and dip them in Plaster of Paris. Works just as well as the cloth and is very cost effective!
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Posted - January 04 2021 : 7:51:49 PM
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quote:Good to know. Your Mom wouldn't be happy, but I took a kitchen
knife, heated it on the stove, and used it to slice. Kind of kills the
knife and stinks up the house for a while, but I understand there
are electric Styrofoam cutters at Hobby Lobby type places that
are more civilized. Definitely going to have some water effects,
still figuring out the foundation of the baseboard, not as simple
as first thought, but fixable. The key is to not get too heavy.
Originally posted by Chops124Â -Â December 01 2020Â :Â 10:15:00 AM
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would a soldering iron work? or would it mess it up?
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Posted - January 04 2021 : 8:03:57 PM
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Nooooo, soldering iron would not provide a clean cut. I believe the
battery operated Styrofoam cutter runs about $10, or something,
at a hobby store.
I found this mess of foam packing that came in my middle daughter's
computer desk she wanted for Christmas. More dense, more plasticy,
but still very light and easy to slice with a cold knife. Probably an inquiry into a furniture store might turn up excess packing material for free.
Took the weekend off from Mormon's Gulch this weekend. Between
working nights and short winter days I feel like my boiler pressure
has sunk.
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Posted - January 04 2021 : 9:05:09 PM
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quote:Nooooo, soldering iron would not provide a clean cut. I believe the
battery operated Styrofoam cutter runs about $10, or something,
at a hobby store.
I found this mess of foam packing that came in my middle daughter's
computer desk she wanted for Christmas. More dense, more plasticy,
but still very light and easy to slice with a cold knife. Probably an inquiry into a furniture store might turn up excess packing material for free.
Took the weekend off from Mormon's Gulch this weekend. Between
working nights and short winter days I feel like my boiler pressure
has sunk.
Originally posted by Chops124-January 04 2021: 8:03:57 PM
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"Boiler Pressure has sunk" - a great steam locomotive reference, for exhaustion.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/rpmodelrailroads
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Posted - January 05 2021 : 01:55:54 AM
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| Yep, I’m dribbling condensation like a melting popsicle.i have come to dread winter.it suck the marrow out of me, and it don’t get that cold. Production goes down by chunks. Ygggh, hate it.
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