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 Posted - April 26 2020 : 02:51:37 AM
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Needed a third to complete my set, this Tyco Amtrak coach is getting a black
body, to be followed by a white window stripe and red CN decals, which will
closely mimic the original, and hard to find, Tyco CN coach.
Using the above as my template, I am making this Amfleet into a CN coach.
Whoops, per usual, I see now I have to paint the window area black and the
upper and lower panels white!!!
Edited by - Chops124 on April 26 2020 02:52:57 AM
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Posted - April 26 2020 : 09:09:42 AM
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That can happen, I've done it many times, where I confuse color placement!
Are you brush painting these?
Also, do I spy a 119 in the wild? 
Edited by - BlaxlandAlex3 on April 26 2020 11:55:48 AM
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Posted - April 26 2020 : 11:06:06 AM
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quote:Whoops, per usual, I see now I have to paint the window area black and the
upper and lower panels white!!! |
Mistake? What mistake? That's pre-shading like all the YouTube scale modelers do. 
“There are a thousand things that can happen when you go light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good.” — Tom Mueller, SpaceX, 2012
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Posted - April 26 2020 : 8:52:57 PM
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Now I gotta find my white paint. Yeah, it's brush. I find spray hard
to control. That's a Bachmann American in a puddle in the back
ground, after many yards of service it is/was being canabilized.
A Hornby OO 0-6-0 where I tried to apply traction tires and cannot
for love or money quarter the drivers back into place. Beyond that
is a coach from a Bachmann 1st gen set, was nice for about 3 hours,
then the crummy Chinese motor burned out. LaFayette, perhaps.
Edited by - Chops124 on April 26 2020 8:53:37 PM
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Posted - April 27 2020 : 08:11:48 AM
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Yep, that's a Lafayette coach. I finally got one myself.  The lafayette uses the same motor as the old Jupiter, maybe you could do a transplant....
Spray cans require masking. And it's not hard at all. (At least for me) And the masking for this coach would be incredibly easy. Lightest color first, so disassemble it, Spray white, then mask the white bottom and top, then spray black. Done! What problems are you having?
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Posted - April 27 2020 : 12:17:12 PM
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No matter how tightly I mask it, there is always some leakage
Under the tape.
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Posted - April 27 2020 : 2:51:50 PM
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quote:No matter how tightly I mask it, there is always some leakage
Under the tape.
Originally posted by Chops124 - April 27 2020 : 12:17:12 PM
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hmm, what kind of tape are you using? Unless it's the name brand 3M tape, It's going to fail. I used to use the off - brand stuff. Darn tape wouldn't stick well enough. Screwed up a Mantua shifter that way. Other then that, as long as you burnish the edges well, it shouldn't leak. Of course, It does happen, and if there's only a little leak, it's no biggie to touch up with a brush. As I said, since the masking for this coach is easy, why not use it as a test bed? Maybe give it another try?
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Posted - April 27 2020 : 5:01:19 PM
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Given the surface corrugation and the need to have tape lie flat at the edges, I'd spray the black window band, mask that smooth surface, then spray the white corrugated panels above and below it.
Would do that whether airbrush or spray can. Actually, would even do that whether spray or hairy stick was used for paint application.
“There are a thousand things that can happen when you go light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good.” — Tom Mueller, SpaceX, 2012
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Posted - April 27 2020 : 7:28:18 PM
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Well, I use this blue carpenter stuff, I just checked, is 3M.
Because my only white paint came in a spray can, I
doggedly applied it and gave quick, gentle applications,
and it leaked a little bit, but not too, too badly, as on
previous excursions. Covering up just the name plate
("COACH") I deemed to much aggravation, so I
sprayed a little white into a clean bottle cap and
started to brush it on...very quickly it would
dissolve the black underneath and turn gray. Let it
dry overnight, will give it another coat of white. Mucho
worko. The Champ decals I gave a light spray of
gloss over coat, per directions, to help prevent
disintegration.
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Posted - April 27 2020 : 7:59:26 PM
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This might be crazy, but I think maybe I will go back to the off
list use of doing the window panel in white, black all over. A
skunk stripe, as the CN noodles will show up easier and be
a lot more easy to apply upon the flat panel...decisions,
decisions...
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Posted - April 27 2020 : 8:43:22 PM
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Wow, that looks great!
I'd leave it. You are asking for trouble by changing it. Voice of numerous experiences!! 
Yeah, that didnt leak as bad. And another white coat will really make it pop.
I like to burnish my masking tape with a toothpick, it helps
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Posted - April 27 2020 : 9:57:15 PM
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U prolly right, might be a one way ticket from frying pan to the fire.
Trouble is, my experience with these vintage Champ decals have
made a Chump out of me before. The are old, crumble easily.
Thinking that if I try to lay them out on the corrugation they
might turn into little flakes. Next time, I will use tooth pick, having
tried everything else in my arsenal.
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Posted - April 27 2020 : 10:10:55 PM
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cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/209776/2297875.aspx
The Microscale Treatment I have heard of before...
Mike
Edited by - Mike on April 27 2020 10:35:27 PM
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Posted - April 28 2020 : 07:58:47 AM
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| Yeah, and if you change the panels, it won't match the others.
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Posted - April 28 2020 : 3:49:11 PM
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quote:U prolly right, might be a one way ticket from frying pan to the fire.
Trouble is, my experience with these vintage Champ decals have
made a Chump out of me before. The are old, crumble easily.
Thinking that if I try to lay them out on the corrugation they
might turn into little flakes. Next time, I will use tooth pick, having
tried everything else in my arsenal.
Originally posted by Chops124 - April 27 2020 : 9:57:15 PM
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Old decals are like new if you just give them a coat of Microscale Decal Film. Not expensive, and worth every penny - that little bottle will last years. Even newer Microscale decals need it, their quality has gone way downhill.
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Posted - April 28 2020 : 4:44:01 PM
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| I did not know that, thanks for the tip.
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Posted - April 28 2020 : 9:20:53 PM
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Regarding the tape, I'm under the impression the blue tape is less sticky than others. I always use the name brand green tape. It comes in a special plastic storage container to keep dirt and debris off the edges while in storage, and claims "PAINT BLOCK TECHNOLOGY", or something equally cheezy. Burnish the edges multiple times with a screwdriver or toothpick.
If you still get leaks, try applying a light coat of the base colour after applying the tape, but before the second colour. For instance, on the CN car you would paint the whole car white, mask off the black stripes, spray another thin coat of white (to fill any gaps in the tape), then spray your black and remove the tape while the paint is still wet.
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Posted - April 28 2020 : 9:52:18 PM
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| They way I'd do it is strip all of the paint off, spray the whole thing black, them mask off a spray the white panels on. That way you don't have layers of paint on the body and they new paint will stick better. Also that green tape DaCheez suggests is great. I believe it's Green Frog brand.
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Posted - April 29 2020 : 08:31:53 AM
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| Interesting, I've never heard of Green Frog. The 3M Blue Tape works fine for me. And contrary to BNSFIA's statement, I thought lightest colors are first. But In this case, I suppose you would spray black first as there is less to mask.
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Posted - April 29 2020 : 10:24:37 AM
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quote:Interesting, I've never heard of Green Frog. The 3M Blue Tape works fine for me. And contrary to BNSFIA's statement, I thought lightest colors are first. But In this case, I suppose you would spray black first as there is less to mask.
Originally posted by BlaxlandAlex3 - April 29 2020 : 08:31:53 AM
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I would normally go white first as well, but if your white paint has good opacity in one or two coats it could work out OK. No brush paints, though, that is asking for problems.
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Posted - April 29 2020 : 3:32:19 PM
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| Useful, thanks.
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Posted - April 29 2020 : 7:44:21 PM
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quote: quote:Interesting, I've never heard of Green Frog. The 3M Blue Tape works fine for me. And contrary to BNSFIA's statement, I thought lightest colors are first. But In this case, I suppose you would spray black first as there is less to mask.
Originally posted by BlaxlandAlex3 - April 29 2020 : 08:31:53 AM
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I would normally go white first as well, but if your white paint has good opacity in one or two coats it could work out OK. No brush paints, though, that is asking for problems.
Originally posted by Crown Vic - April 29 2020 : 10:24:37 AM
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That just about sums it up!
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Posted - April 29 2020 : 8:14:30 PM
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quote:No matter how tightly I mask it, there is always some leakage
Under the tape.
Originally posted by Chops124 - April 27 2020 : 12:17:12 PM
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Try using the 3m Blue Painters tape. Sometimes it helps to use your thumbnail to press down the edge of the tape. I paint the line a second time. If it was black on top yellow on the bottom. I would re-tape it over the yellow and give it a coat of black again. I also use a magnifying light to get a better view of where the tape cover the color. Using an Airbrush makes a big difference.
Edited by - AF Kid on April 29 2020 8:15:54 PM
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 Posted - April 30 2020 : 09:51:18 AM
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Interesting project Jeff. Brings back memories from your life in Canada.
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Posted - May 03 2020 : 03:22:57 AM
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Well, after some very thoughtful advice, I decided to take the plunge and
repaint it with a single skunk stripe across the window panel. This allowed
me to highlight the CN wet noodle better. I figured if worse came to worse
I could strip it down. Here it is fresh from the paint shop, little shiny in some
places as it is yet wet. I used a black Sharpie pen to touch up the black over run.
On a whim, I painted the trucks silver to stand them out from the all black
coach body.
Thank you for all the great information. I did spray it with gloss coat, and it
held together very well, even though the backing paper had turned yellow, a
bad sign of age and fragility.
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Posted - May 03 2020 : 08:14:00 AM
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Ooooh, that does look good!
Strange tip: sealing yellowed decals in a plastic bag in a room with no humidity facing the sun for a week will reverse the effect. The longer it's in the sun, the clearer they will get! 
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Posted - May 03 2020 : 09:59:55 AM
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I like the silver trucks. :)
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