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 Posted - September 02 2006 : 10:29:50 PM
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Hi All,
I picked up a ( Seasons Greatings ) box car for $1 today. It has the same body as the Canada Dry box car. It is light green on top and ends. The sides are white. Seasons Greatings is on the left and a drum and evergreen branch is on the right. It is numbered ( MMP707 ). My question is, When and for how long was it made, and was it part of a set?
Thanks
Mike
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 Posted - September 03 2006 : 12:47:50 AM
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| It might be part of the Mantua "Toy Express" set? Mantua made a special Christmas-themed set in the late 90's; I've not ever seen one but there is info at the botom of the GP20 page on Tony's Tyco site.
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Posted - September 03 2006 : 10:52:52 AM
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Hey,
I've seen various Christmas themed box cars and don't know exactly who to credit them to...TYCO...Mantua...or others.
They generally always seem to be 50' Plug Door Box Cars and sadly without having the car in front of me to inspect, they could often times be AHM as easily as TYCO.
Had a person e-mail me some years back and said that some eBayers and swap meet sellers know of the interest in TYCO and often will attempt to take a car and trade out its underframe so it reads TYCO Hong Kong on it and put it in a generic no end flap labeled brown box and pawn it off as an odd TYCO piece. Believe the Mantua United States cars of the early '80s have had this masquerade done to them.
I'd have to review my Mantua catalogs, but I seem to recall that they offered a 50' Plug Door box car with "Seasons Greetings" on it in the early days of the second round of the Mantua line (1977-2001). I've also seen what I'm pretty certain is AHM's 50 Plug Door with holiday greetings on it. This AHM 50 Plug Door, appears to be '70s, is the same body sold by Bachmann at the time. Then you have to remember the various special run cars done by both TYCO and Mantua for hobby shops, trade shows, which these holiday cars seem to possibly fit into this area too. Off hand, seems like I remember one of these cars carrying the year "1977" on it somewhere.
I do know that no TYCO annual catalog featured the Seasons Greetings 50 Plug Door.
Don't think I helped identify this car for you, but it is a fuzzy area. Cars like these are left off my TYCO Resource on purpose, because I don't have the facts on them and don't want to speculate or provide false or guessed at info.
Tony Cook
HO-Scale Trains Resource
http://ho-scaletrains.net
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 Posted - September 03 2006 : 12:26:23 PM
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Hey,
What was I just saying about not being able to prove if those holiday box cars were actually TYCO? And then I did seem to remember one of them carried "1977" on it...
That looks pretty legit to me. It's on eBay as of 9/3/2006.
[^]
Tony Cook
HO-Scale Trains Resource
http://ho-scaletrains.net
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Posted - September 03 2006 : 12:53:17 PM
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Hey,
Thanks for the info. I started collecting Tyco trains just before I found this site.( wich is great by the way ). I collect Tyco for a couple of reasons. I loved them as a kid and they are very affordable today. I don't believe I have paid much more than a dollar for any Tyco item. I don't collect them for the value or to get rich someday, we know that won't happen. I actually use them.
Thanks again
Mike
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Posted - September 03 2006 : 1:14:07 PM
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quote:| Had a person e-mail me some years back and said that some eBayers and swap meet sellers know of the interest in TYCO and often will attempt to take a car and trade out its underframe so it reads TYCO Hong Kong on it and put it in a generic no end flap labeled brown box and pawn it off as an odd TYCO piece. Originally posted by Tony Cook - September 03 2006 : 3:52:52 PM
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There should be a few clues to certify it as a 100% legit TYCO piece. Now granted, the frames may be swapped, but as far as the shel goes:
1) If it has filled-in stirrups, it's definitely Brown-box Tyco.
2) Look at the brakewheel. Tyco definitely had its own style to them. But if there is any doubt, take it out and look at the mounting hole and lug. Only Tyco/Mantua used such a tiny, tiny hole. Of course, that might cross-up your specific years, but at least you'll know the maker is legit.
3) (I am not 100% sure on this) I don't think the Bachmann 50' plug has holes in the shell sideframe (my examples don't). Also has square stirrups? I don't know about the AHM cars. If there is a removable roofwalk, it is NOT Tyco (early Bachmann cars had this feature).
And that's just what I can think of, off-hand...
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Posted - September 03 2006 : 3:51:35 PM
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quote:
There should be a few clues to certify it as a 100% legit TYCO piece. Now granted, the frames may be swapped, but as far as the shel goes:
1) If it has filled-in stirrups, it's definitely Brown-box Tyco.
Originally posted by GoingInCirclez - September 03 2006 : 6:14:07 PM
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The filled-in stirrups do not automatically denote TYCO. Mantua's 50' Plug Door Box Car from the late '70s included filled-in steps. IHC has ran the old TYCO molds over the years for the 50' Plug Door and it includes filled-in steps too. I've seen both Mantua and IHC 50' Plug Doors incorrectly-indentified as being TYCO-made.
Tony Cook
HO-Scale Trains Resource
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Posted - September 03 2006 : 6:55:27 PM
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LOL so that's what I get for trying to play an "expert" eh?
I always thought the filled-in stirrups started well into the Tyco era, but you can call me confused on the "Mantua - Tyco is the same and yet not" factor. I guess it falls in the same caveat as the brakewheel... you'll know it's from the right general source, but the year might be less certain.
With regards to the IHC re-releases... most of those I have seen have paint details that give them away. For instance, Tyco never put COTS stencils (those little black boxes) on their cars, whereas nearly all of the IHC I've seen, do. A COTS stencil is therefore a dead givaway that it's NOT Tyco. I also don't recall any end reporting marks on TYCO stuff (maybe some of the covered hoppers had them?). IHC in general has more / "better" capy /return /builder's data, IMHO... but this isn't a hard and fast rule, just something learned through comparison and subjective observation. If there's any doubt as to the true source of a body shell, one can always look for same/similar items from IHC on ebay.
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 Posted - June 04 2007 : 8:33:03 PM
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Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the input. I was going through some of the posts I had sent out a long time ago and came across this one about the Seasons Greatings car not being marked. I thought I would give it another look and would'nt you know it, I found the Tyco mark under a truck. Heres a picture of the car.
Thanks
Mike
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obtrey
Little Six
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Posted - June 04 2007 : 11:39:31 PM
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I beleive the picture of the car with MMP 707 on it is a Mantua. There is one up for bid on e-bay now and it is in a Mantua box which I believe is correct. I have that car but can't get to it right now so I am not 100% sure if it is a Bachman or Mantua. I think the The AHM is entirely different and easy to tell apart
Here is a pic of the Tyco car in the original box and a pic of rhe certificate that comes with it. The number on the box is 339S and if I remember correctly the end panel is white (I could be mistaken). As far as I know or can find it is the only year that I am aware of for that car, and I don't recall any other Xmas cars by Tyco, not that there arent any I just dont recall.
Bob
In Malfunction Junction:
When all else fails get a bigger hammer.
Edited by - obtrey on June 06 2007 10:16:38 PM
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Posted - June 05 2007 : 12:45:16 PM
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My guess would be the reporting marks "MMP" would possibly stand for Mantua Metal Products.
Tony Cook
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 Posted - February 16 2008 : 5:20:18 PM
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Greetings All,
I'm new to the forum and thought I'd share a picture of the Season Greetings box cars that I have. As you can see the 2 are the Mantua Seasons Greetings car, drum and branch on the side of the car, the Tyco car, trumpet and 77 on the side of the car, and another Tyco car that has the Tyco logo and a Christmas tree on the side.
I picked up the Mantua at a train store in Pennsylvania, and the other 2 on eBay. The Tyco, trumpet and 77, has the certificate from Echelon Hobbies. Interestingly the certificate has the number 1867, the car has 1870.
The Tyco logo car is one I'd seen on eBay and missed out buying, then this one came up. They are the only 2 I've seen. Has any one else seen this car? 
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Posted - February 16 2008 : 10:07:35 PM
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Good looking cars. Heres a photo thats smaller and cropped. The other one was pretty big. I have never seen the one you have with the TYCO logo on it. That is pretty neat.
A lone amature built the ark! A large group of professionals built the titanic!
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 Posted - November 26 2020 : 7:45:47 PM
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Some nice holiday cars for the season.
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