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 minimum voltage output on a Tyco transformer?
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rgcw5
Hudson

conrock switcher

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 Posted - March 11 2015 :  11:20:07 PM Link directly to this topic  Show Profile  Send rgcw5 a Yahoo! Message  Add rgcw5 to Buddylist
OK folks, got a query.

My plan so far is trying to resurrect my old operating piggyback terminal. The old levers were done, diodes cooked ETC. I've taken the wires from both motors (forward/reverse, up/down) and connected them to a DPDT momentary switch. The "power" is connected to a standard Tyco throttle on the TRACK connection (this way the forward reverse lever there reverses function)

Following me so far?

Now testing the system, it works (I'm still dealing with gear slippage on the forks, but I think I got that issue fixed) here's the big issue, its going too fast even when I crack the throttle (launching trailers is a BIT unprototypical) so, my question is, what is the starting voltage and what kind of resistor would I need.

Bashing things is great, but wiring them....ehhhhh...

just me Ray... and just because I have Tyco doesn't mean I am not a model railroader
Edited by - rgcw5 on March 12 2015 12:01:27 AM
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scsshaggy
Big Boy


scsshaggy

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 Posted - March 11 2015 :  11:50:53 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add scsshaggy to Buddylist
It might work to wire an automobile tail light bulb in parallel to your piggyback terminal. The power pack is regulating voltage by balancing the throttle rheostat with the motor. If it's a small, low draw motor, that won't work.

With the light bulb, the rheostat and light bulb will balance each other and the piggyback loader will inherit the light bulb's voltage. I've used this same solution to make rheostat throttles more smoothly control can-motored locomotives.

Presumably, you'll still want just crack the throttle.

Carpe Manana!
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RDC1
Hudson

P&R

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 Posted - March 12 2015 :  06:11:50 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RDC1 to Buddylist
quote:
OK folks, got a query.

My plan so far is trying to resurrect my old operating piggyback terminal. The old levers were done, diodes cooked ETC. I've taken the wires from both motors (forward/reverse, up/down) and connected them to a DPDT momentary switch. The "power" is connected to a standard Tyco throttle on the TRACK connection (this way the forward reverse lever there reverses function)

Following me so far?

Now testing the system, it works (I'm still dealing with gear slippage on the forks, but I think I got that issue fixed) here's the big issue, its going too fast even when I crack the throttle (launching trailers is a BIT unprototypical) so, my question is, what is the starting voltage and what kind of resistor would I need.

Bashing things is great, but wiring them....ehhhhh...

Originally posted by rgcw5 - March 11 2015 :  11:20:07 PM



What does it use for power?

~ Dave

~ Dave

They're ALL toys

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AMC_Gremlin_GT
Big Boy



GremlinBL2

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 Posted - March 12 2015 :  08:01:06 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Send AMC_Gremlin_GT an AOL message  Send AMC_Gremlin_GT a Yahoo! Message  Add AMC_Gremlin_GT to Buddylist
I think most transformers like Tyco used really start out with a voltage like 7 v, not 0. It takes a bit of voltage to get a train going, I've put a voltmeter on power packs before and watched the voltage jump from 0 to around 5-7 really quick, there's not much lag at the bottom, as they're assuming the train has a load, etc. With an accessory like the loader, there's really no load, the motor starts pulling power immediately, unlike an "object at rest will remain at rest until enough power is supplied to move it" type like a Tyco engine. I have no idea what voltage those accessory motors use, I have never had to troubleshoot one. ScssHaggy's idea of an auto bulb as a load sounds right, it gives the accessory time to draw current, since there's already another load on the voltage. I've never done that, but again, sounds like 'haggy knows what he's talking about.

Another thing, diodes are also voltage limiters, meaning they may have been rated for 5 to 10 volts, to keep high voltage from the accessory motor when operating, not just a directional thing. If you haven't put diodes back into the circuit, that could be why you have a runaway accessory operation now, as the small motor is now getting way more voltage and current than it used to . Again, I've never played around with many Tyco ( or any other ) powered accessory, so not sure of the voltage specs on those motors, but I suspect they would not put in a more expensive 14v motor like the trains use, when they could use a 5 volt motor, and a few 10-cent diodes to limit the current going to it. Just my opinion. Anyway, good luck with it.

" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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rgcw5
Hudson

conrock switcher

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 Posted - March 13 2015 :  2:44:07 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Send rgcw5 a Yahoo! Message  Add rgcw5 to Buddylist
Dave, I'm assuming you mean the motors in the terminal, they are slotcar motors, really close to the original ones, I also got your PM on the levers, don't have it anymore, when I said fried whoever had it before me must've plugged it directly to a wall mount, the whole box was melted! (Why I got it at a cheap price!)

Jerry (gremlin) I was not sure on the diodes, and my multimeter grew legs when I posted, its still walking somewhere but I'll borrow one from my shop. I'm pretty sure I'll have to put them on both wires to the throttle pack as that's my "reversing" module which I have a feeling will bring up more problems/queries.

Glad the forum is back up I got worried for a bit!

just me Ray... and just because I have Tyco doesn't mean I am not a model railroader
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ScaleCraft
Big Six

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 Posted - March 13 2015 :  4:33:51 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add ScaleCraft to Buddylist
silicone based diodes drop .75V per diode. They do not limit top voltage.
Put a string of them together, figure 3/4 volt drop per, and you'll be okay.
Dave
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AMC_Gremlin_GT
Big Boy



GremlinBL2

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 Posted - March 13 2015 :  5:11:27 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Send AMC_Gremlin_GT an AOL message  Send AMC_Gremlin_GT a Yahoo! Message  Add AMC_Gremlin_GT to Buddylist
quote:
silicone based diodes drop .75V per diode. They do not limit top voltage.

Dave

Originally posted by ScaleCraft - March 13 2015 :  4:33:51 PM



Oops, yeah, I was thinking Transistor there, not diode. Diodes tend to be 25/50/75/100 volt ranges and on up. My bad.

Jerry

" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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RDC1
Hudson

P&R

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 Posted - March 13 2015 :  5:47:55 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RDC1 to Buddylist
quote:
Dave, I'm assuming you mean the motors in the terminal, they are slotcar motors, really close to the original ones, I also got your PM on the levers, don't have it anymore, when I said fried whoever had it before me must've plugged it directly to a wall mount, the whole box was melted! (Why I got it at a cheap price!)

Jerry (gremlin) I was not sure on the diodes, and my multimeter grew legs when I posted, its still walking somewhere but I'll borrow one from my shop. I'm pretty sure I'll have to put them on both wires to the throttle pack as that's my "reversing" module which I have a feeling will bring up more problems/queries.

Glad the forum is back up I got worried for a bit!

Originally posted by rgcw5 - March 13 2015 :  2:44:07 PM



I think I have a solution for ya ... let me dig through my stash of stuff and I'll get back to ya.

~ Dave

~ Dave

They're ALL toys

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microbusss
Big Boy





tiger

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 Posted - March 14 2015 :  01:04:16 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add microbusss to Buddylist
umm your only supposed to put that PiggyBack loading set on the ACCESORY side of power pack only!

Course mine is missing the control box
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RDC1
Hudson

P&R

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 Posted - March 22 2015 :  09:51:30 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RDC1 to Buddylist
OK. if you're up for this, you can build new PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) controls using some inexpensive modules from eBay. I'm currently using one to jack up an old Tyco power pack for a trolley layout project. You would need 2, one for the forks and one for the loader.





Connect the module power terminals to the DC accessories terminals on your power pack. Connect the power terminals to your DPDT switch for direction control and you should now have better control over your fork motors.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281569662431?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Hope this helps!

~ Dave

~ Dave

They're ALL toys

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AMC_Gremlin_GT
Big Boy



GremlinBL2

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 Posted - March 22 2015 :  09:59:09 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Send AMC_Gremlin_GT an AOL message  Send AMC_Gremlin_GT a Yahoo! Message  Add AMC_Gremlin_GT to Buddylist
quote:
OK. if you're up for this, you can build new PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) controls using some inexpensive modules from eBay.

~ Dave

Originally posted by RDC1 - March 22 2015 :  09:51:30 AM



I read about PWM power online one time, the claims were it had far better control than just a standard sliding scale power supply. I wonder if that is what the Momentum fuction does on a Tech II power supply? Guess I'd need an ocilloscope to find out. I may have to buy a few of those to play with myself.

Jerry in VA

" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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RDC1
Hudson

P&R

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 Posted - March 22 2015 :  11:26:20 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RDC1 to Buddylist
Most power supplies vary the voltage, starting low and then going higher. With true PWM, you always have the maximum voltage, but you are varying the time of the pulse. So let's say you have a 12 volt supply and you have the dial set for 10% on 90% off. For that 10% you have full power and torque going to the motor, unlike variable voltage supplies where the power & torque rise with the voltage. With true PWM you can get some very low crawling action. I'm not sure what the momentum function does, I've never had the opportunity to fiddle with one.

~ Dave

~ Dave

They're ALL toys

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jackperez
Switcher

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 Posted - April 22 2015 :  6:12:55 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add jackperez to Buddylist
rgcw5, you can simply use a small capacitor in the line in order to smooth out the signal to the motor, the higher value of capacitance you use, higher will be the RC value which indicates a delay of the signal. This delay will cause your motors to start slowly once the signal is provided. Also, the resistor you use will only the current, it will not affect the value of the voltage being passed to the motor. The voltage being applied to the motor is proportional to its speed.

board assembly

Edited by - jackperez on May 08 2015 11:56:48 AM
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ZeldaTheSwordsman
Mikado


G2 Slingshot

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 Posted - December 10 2015 :  11:53:47 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add ZeldaTheSwordsman to Buddylist
Another thing you could do is insert a separate rheostat into the circuit to modulate the voltage.
Feedback-hungry attention w****
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toptrain
Moderator




On Pingynp

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 Posted - December 11 2015 :  08:50:42 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add toptrain to Buddylist
Minimum output of a Tyco transformer is Zero with throttle on off.
That's as low as you go.

toptrain

" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!

Edited by - toptrain on December 11 2015 08:51:35 AM
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