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 Posted - January 06 2015 : 3:28:47 PM
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Look at this narrow mindedness;
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,3623983
Randy
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Posted - January 06 2015 : 3:36:50 PM
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It'd be fun to answer that there's very little Tyco but loads of old 1970's Bachmann and Lifelike -- with lint from shag carpeting in the gears.  
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - January 06 2015 : 3:40:24 PM
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well aside the cars & engines of Tyco
I do think the motors of Tyco are junk 
BUT here I am REPAIRING the motors of Tyco locos
& once you lube, tighten a few screws here & there they run pretty good
yeah I will get hated for that but I put the blame on the crappy PT motors Tyco used
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Posted - January 06 2015 : 4:32:00 PM
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Randy unfortunately that post is pretty mild compared to some others I have run across. Not a side of our hobby that I'm proud of, but I imagine other hobbies have their own elitists too.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - January 06 2015 : 6:42:54 PM
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Very mild. Not even that uncommon a mindset, at least from what I overhear others saying at shows and such. At least most model railroaders, however, have the tact to leave well enough alone if they don't appreciate our kind of trains.
--CRC
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Posted - January 06 2015 : 7:03:41 PM
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No teeth off my drive pinion. Less demand for Tyco at the shows means more toys for me to play with. But in fact, people seem to buy it...
I will say some model railroaders have trouble thinking outside the box. Push people a bit past it, and they get quite upset, even hostile. My research into old hobby magazines confirms that this is not a new characteristic. There were people very upset with Eric La Nal for building locomotive superstructures and even passenger-car trucks from cardboard and wood, without solder or machine work involved, but for all the negative reactions there were many people who just went ahead and had fun...
I was mystified by this attitude a few days ago, when I saw a copy of EASY TO BUILD FREIGHT CARS online. It's an older compilation of MODEL RAILROADER Dollar Car projects from the 50's and 60's. The book had one user review. One very negative review: "Badly outdated!"
Really? Really, people? An old book that tells you how to do things is badly outdated. I guess it's because H.O. Williams didn't tell people to rush out and buy the latest Walthers kit or go out and 3d print something at Shapeways. But last I checked, cardboard still cuts when you slice it with a knife, and glue still sticks...
There are multitudes of ways to do things with this hobby. Look at DSF's repower projects. So many different ways to build a drive, some even 'break rules', and yet they all work well. But to many modelers, there is one, and only one, Right Way. I prefer to leave that to the Central of Georgia...
I almost think we inherited this attitude from the prototype railroads...
Edited by - Autobus Prime on January 06 2015 7:19:38 PM
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Posted - January 06 2015 : 7:39:10 PM
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quote:I imagine other hobbies have their own elitists too.
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â January 06 2015Â :Â 4:32:00 PM
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Opinions can get pretty dogmatic, at times, in photography. (You CAN'T take a picture without a tripod! And, zoom lenses just aren't as sharp as fixed focal length lenses, dogonnit!) Fortunately, I only live on the fringes of that hobby and am ignored as a harmless outsider.
I sometimes think people are more dogmatic and feelings run higher in a hobby than in little matters like life and death, or how you'll spend eternity.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - January 06 2015 : 7:46:56 PM
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quote: quote:I imagine other hobbies have their own elitists too.
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â January 06 2015Â :Â 4:32:00 PM
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Opinions can get pretty dogmatic, at times, in photography. (You CAN'T take a picture without a tripod! And, zoom lenses just aren't as sharp as fixed focal length lenses, dogonnit!) Fortunately, I only live on the fringes of that hobby and am ignored as a harmless outsider.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - January 06 2015 : 7:39:10 PM
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scs:
Hey, if you're a photographer then maybe you can help me understand something I found in an old MR.
Linn Westcott was talking, in 1938, about how to photograph (train) models (^_^), and he mentioned that focusing was difficult, but a solution was (paraphrasing) to buy cheap dime store spectacles [reading glasses?], find the focal length by focusing the sun on paper at various distances, then mount it close to the lens of a commercial camera to sharply focus on anything at the lens's focal length.
What is he doing here, and is it a trick that would work with modern digital cameras? I presume he is basically making a fixed close-up lens...does the distance from the camera's own lens matter?
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Posted - January 06 2015 : 8:59:46 PM
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quote:No teeth off my drive pinion. Less demand for Tyco at the shows means more toys for me to play with. But in fact, people seem to buy it...
I will say some model railroaders have trouble thinking outside the box. Push people a bit past it, and they get quite upset, even hostile. My research into old hobby magazines confirms that this is not a new characteristic. There were people very upset with Eric La Nal for building locomotive superstructures and even passenger-car trucks from cardboard and wood, without solder or machine work involved, but for all the negative reactions there were many people who just went ahead and had fun...
I was mystified by this attitude a few days ago, when I saw a copy of EASY TO BUILD FREIGHT CARS online. It's an older compilation of MODEL RAILROADER Dollar Car projects from the 50's and 60's. The book had one user review. One very negative review: "Badly outdated!"
Really? Really, people? An old book that tells you how to do things is badly outdated. I guess it's because H.O. Williams didn't tell people to rush out and buy the latest Walthers kit or go out and 3d print something at Shapeways. But last I checked, cardboard still cuts when you slice it with a knife, and glue still sticks...
There are multitudes of ways to do things with this hobby. Look at DSF's repower projects. So many different ways to build a drive, some even 'break rules', and yet they all work well. But to many modelers, there is one, and only one, Right Way. I prefer to leave that to the Central of Georgia...
I almost think we inherited this attitude from the prototype railroads...
Originally posted by Autobus Prime - January 06 2015 : 7:03:41 PM
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 That's actually kinda sad.Even if it is "outdated information", it's still neat to have for historical reasons. On top of that, I have an H0 layout plan book dating from the 1966 and almost everything in the book in terms of technology is still used in some form by model railroaders and even then, you can still find the materials for it at shows and stuff. Oh, and this guy who is an insult to this group, honestly, if he hates it so much, he obviously hasn't come to this forum. Then, if he saw all the cool projects we've all done over the years with the "cheap" stuff, he would have a mostly different view on Tyco rolling stock.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on January 07 2015 09:29:48 AM
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Posted - January 06 2015 : 9:57:17 PM
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quote:Randy unfortunately that post is pretty mild compared to some others I have run across. Not a side of our hobby that I'm proud of, but I imagine other hobbies have their own elitists too.
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â January 06 2015Â :Â 4:32:00 PM
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We ARE the elite! 
Same ol' story. There are snobs in every hobby. I wonder what it is that they consider not to be junk, toys etc??? ... They're ALL toys as far as I'm concerned.
~ Dave
They're ALL toys
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Posted - January 06 2015 : 10:24:05 PM
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quote:Linn Westcott was talking, in 1938, about how to photograph (train) models (^_^), and he mentioned that focusing was difficult, but a solution was (paraphrasing) to buy cheap dime store spectacles [reading glasses?], find the focal length by focusing the sun on paper at various distances, then mount it close to the lens of a commercial camera to sharply focus on anything at the lens's focal length.
What is he doing here, and is it a trick that would work with modern digital cameras? I presume he is basically making a fixed close-up lens...does the distance from the camera's own lens matter?
Originally posted by Autobus Prime - January 06 2015 : 7:46:56 PM
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I think he's making the camera nearsighted. You need reading glasses when you lose the ability to focus closely, either by being far sighted or old.
A lot of old cameras had no zoom nor macro mode, just a lens that focused from maybe five feet away to infinity. The reading glasses probably worked for the camera like they work for the eye. If so, the distance from the lens would matter in that, if you slide your glasses up and down your nose, you change the close focus of them. I don't think changing the distance between the lens and glasses would make it work or not work, but would change the distance you needed to be from the subject.
In principle, this would work the same for a film or digital camera. I tried it on my camera, though, and it didn't make much difference, because my camera has a zoom lens with a nice close focus at the wide angle end of the zoom. In short, our cameras have such nice optics, now, that this may no longer be necessary.
It does occur to me, though, to wonder how the cameras on phones and laptops handle close focus. I can't test that.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - January 06 2015 : 10:52:02 PM
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quote: quote:Linn Westcott was talking, in 1938, about how to photograph (train) models (^_^), and he mentioned that focusing was difficult, but a solution was (paraphrasing) to buy cheap dime store spectacles [reading glasses?], find the focal length by focusing the sun on paper at various distances, then mount it close to the lens of a commercial camera to sharply focus on anything at the lens's focal length.
What is he doing here, and is it a trick that would work with modern digital cameras? I presume he is basically making a fixed close-up lens...does the distance from the camera's own lens matter?
Originally posted by Autobus Prime - January 06 2015 : 7:46:56 PM
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I think he's making the camera nearsighted. You need reading glasses when you lose the ability to focus closely, either by being far sighted or old.
A lot of old cameras had no zoom nor macro mode,the reading glasses probably worked for the camera like they work for the eye. I don't think changing the distance between the lens and glasses would make it work or not work,
In principle, this would work the same for a film or digital camera.
It does occur to me, though, to wonder how the cameras on phones and laptops handle close focus. I can't test that.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - January 06 2015 : 10:24:05 PM
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Basically, you had to change physical lenses back then to get the light to "bend" more for close-ups. With modern digital cameras, it's all software-driven, and probably won't work the same as the camera will try to compensate. My old digital Kodak Easyshare I use to shoot trains with has a feature for close-up, either a head-shot, or a flower icon used as the close-up function choice. They work great, and eliminate the need to do it manually. My Samsung smartphone makes all the compensations automatically for close-up work. No need for extra lenses. But if you have a manual camera, you need a lens that can handle it. Like if you want a zoom lenses, they come in configurations like 50-210mm, 75-300mm. The smaller the initial number the closer you can take. A normal 35MM lenses will let you do limited close-ups. you need something like a 10-50mm lenses to really allow you to do professional close-ups with a manual camera. Modern digital cameras can compensate without lens changes sometimes. But using reading glasses with modern digital cams is probably not going to work at all.
Jerry in VA
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - January 06 2015 : 11:55:04 PM
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quote: quote:I imagine other hobbies have their own elitists too.
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â January 06 2015Â :Â 4:32:00 PM
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.............
I sometimes think people are more dogmatic and feelings run higher in a hobby than in little matters like life and death, or how you'll spend eternity.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - January 06 2015 : 7:39:10 PM
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Well said.
Very often we lose perspective of the important things in life versus the not-so.
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Posted - January 07 2015 : 10:04:17 AM
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quote:
Dang it, Houston, Dallas, whatever, is all the way across the Republic of Texas from me.
Might as well be on the moon. I'd love to be around all that "Tyco Junk."
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Posted - January 07 2015 : 11:41:08 AM
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It has been a couple of years since I've been to the Train Show in Plano. I will say that it has good attendance, lots of different brands and scales. Several clubs have layouts setup - also of various scales. They usually have an area with Thomas Trains setup for the kiddos to play with.
There is one large area where most of the layouts can be found as well as dealers. Then there are three wide hallways with more dealers and about 8 or so rooms with some dealers, classes and tables that individuals/ clubs have items for sale. I have not seen much in the way of Tyco but I have found some bargains.
Cheers
Bill
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Posted - January 07 2015 : 1:54:10 PM
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As far as Junk status goes I wonder how much has to do with Tyco not being around anymore. Bachman has Spectrum and Life Like has Proto 2000. People think of the flagship and how it reflects on the brand. I can still buy that 1980 era LL or Bachman set with the same quality of the Tyco set of the era.
I guess I have to ask what is his description of 'junk'. A Tyco PT locomotive compared to a current day Proto 2000 with DCC and sound may vary well be junk to him from the stand point of one does not run like the other.
I consider the fun factor. I like to tinker. I do not like working on the PT drives, I prefer the Athearn Blue Box engines and later models using that concept. Would I call the Tyco locos junk, no. I have re-powered several with drives I like. Would I recommend the Tyco to a new person to the hobby, no because of the know PT issues.
As for the cars, go for it. They are a good base to build off to make better cars. Only thing I do not like from the start is the truck mounted couplers. If you do not need to back up the train, not an issue, in my yards they are an issue. After that I upgrade the wheels to metal and the couplers to knuckle style and body mount them when possible. In-fact my favorite gondola and tank car models are both Tycos.
As far as building kits I have not built a Tyco one that I did not like. They also have allot of potential to kitbash to something eles.
My favorite steam engines are the Mantua, later sold as Tyco (with metal boiler) kits. I have several of these. They are solid, reliable locomotives.
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Posted - January 07 2015 : 2:34:32 PM
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quote:I guess I have to ask what is his description of 'junk'.
Originally posted by tkruger - January 07 2015 : 1:54:10 PM
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At the most fundamental level, "junk" is defined as what he's not shopping for. For example, if he's into excruciating detail, he may be looking for Kadee and Tichy cars and Proto 2000 engines and all else, including used Tyco, is in the way.
I go to the Great Midwest Train Show, from time to time, and there's stuff from all scales and all price levels. There's used stuff and new stuff. The show is huge and 99% of what's there I don't want. Still, it's unrealistic to think that 5 big buildings at the fair grounds will be completely filled with ONLY the sort of stuff I buy.
I think the only safe plan is to leave him at the Center of the Universe as imagined by him.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - January 07 2015 : 4:30:49 PM
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quote:
I think the only safe plan is to leave him at the Center of the Universe as imagined by him.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - January 07 2015 : 2:34:32 PM
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there you go!
Seems like in any hobby, there are some that need to degrade some aspects in order to justify/validate the aspects they focus on.
The oft-repeated phrase I come across that is now a cliche: "Don't mess with that Tyco junk, it's not worth your time."
It always floors me, because it's usually in response to a question from a hobby newcomer that is interested in this great (new to them) hobby and is looking to have fun.
I think - that what keeps me hanging around this particular site to the exclusion lately of others is that folks here don't take themselves or the hobby so dang seriously that it's not fun anymore. As far as ability, I've seen it here and it's second to none, but as someone mentioned earlier - there are open minds as well.
Open to working with the "toy trainset grade" (how I hate that term) stuff.
So I ask - when is a model not a toy and when is a toy not a model? And who really gives a hoot?
http://tycodepot.com/
Edited by - JNXT 7707 on January 07 2015 4:31:50 PM
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Posted - January 07 2015 : 4:41:57 PM
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Actually that is very common in the hobby and to some extent understandable. I am not one to bash folks for what they like and don't like but Tyco is not junk. That said, I'm moving away from tyco, mostly the PT stuff and focusing on my athearn, atlas and p2k stuff. Is it better? Well yeah but this move has more to do with they type of locos and era i model. That said, a lot of the steam engines will stay as will all the billboard cars and a few geeps.
If you are not having fun, you are not doing it right.
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