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 Posted - December 13 2014 : 4:36:16 PM
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Fleischmann tender drive. What the Tyco PT wanted to be when it grew up.
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Posted - December 13 2014 : 7:03:57 PM
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Heck, that's not even in the same CLASS as a PT, that thing is a certified can motor! VERY nice construction there!  No way could you compare the tyco slot-car based PT with something that nice.  Nicely designed, I've never seen one myself like that....
Jerry in VA
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - December 13 2014 : 7:41:48 PM
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I had the chance to service a number of these for The Railhead over the last few years.
They are a pleasure to work on.
Usually, just a wheel cleaning and a lube is all they need.
 
PS NOTE TO SELF
Label your photos!!
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Posted - December 13 2014 : 7:45:57 PM
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Dang, if Tyco went with that motor, you would see more Tycos in good running condition and modellers would appreciate Tyco more. Heck, Tyco would most likely still be making trains at this point in time.Of course, Tyco had a very strict budget on top of the fact that the Tyco train team were only experienced in the slot car arena so yeah.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - December 13 2014 : 10:21:09 PM
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It shows that it was more a matter of price point than motor type. Heck, all of the old tinplate Standard and O gauge locos had giant pancake motors, but they were built like household appliances and last forever. Marklin also used pancake motors with spur gears in HO locos, but built to a high standard.
Even the Bachmann motors and gearing were more robust than Tyco's; it was their plastic axles that usually did them in.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - January 05 2015 : 12:37:22 AM
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If Tyco had used a better armature and stronger, heavier gears, the Power Torque drive may have been pretty decent. Wormless spur gear drives are some of the smoothest and most efficient around, and it's a shame that more manufacturers don't try to use this sort of system. And noise? All you have to do is cut and mesh the gears right! I just finished powering a switcher with a Faulhaber motor attached to a 22:1 spur gearhead, and those gears are dead silent!
Darth Santa Fe, doing weird and challenging projects for the fun of it!
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Posted - January 05 2015 : 09:33:38 AM
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quote:It shows that it was more a matter of price point than motor type. Heck, all of the old tinplate Standard and O gauge locos had giant pancake motors, but they were built like household appliances and last forever. Marklin also used pancake motors with spur gears in HO locos, but built to a high standard.
Even the Bachmann motors and gearing were more robust than Tyco's; it was their plastic axles that usually did them in.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â December 13 2014Â :Â 10:21:09 PM
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 My brother and I actually own a couple of older Bachmanns and can easily say that they run much better than Tycos. Much smoother, quieter, speed's better, etc. I just dread the day when my brother's Western Pacific GS-4 (Yes they had them.) suffers the same fate that most Bachmann steamers suffered back then.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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 Posted - January 05 2015 : 2:40:18 PM
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Hey DSF, When are you gonna do some new YouTube vids?
quote:If Tyco had used a better armature and stronger, heavier gears, the Power Torque drive may have been pretty decent. Wormless spur gear drives are some of the smoothest and most efficient around, and it's a shame that more manufacturers don't try to use this sort of system. And noise? All you have to do is cut and mesh the gears right! I just finished powering a switcher with a Faulhaber motor attached to a 22:1 spur gearhead, and those gears are dead silent!
Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe - January 05 2015 : 12:37:22 AM
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just me Ray... and just because I have Tyco doesn't mean I am not a model railroader
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Posted - January 05 2015 : 3:02:45 PM
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Another advantage to a wormless drive is the built in freewheeling flywheel effect. (This wasn't remotely possible with the PT due to the tiny armature and poorly mounted gearing, especially the reduction gear that gets torqued sideways based on direction of travel.)
quote:I just finished powering a switcher with a Faulhaber motor attached to a 22:1 spur gearhead, and those gears are dead silent!
Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe - January 05 2015 : 12:37:22 AM
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I picked up a Faulhaber coreless gearhead motor at a post-Thanksgiving train show for $5. The gearhead is totally silent. Now I just have to figure out what to do with it. I guess I could throw a rubber band over the shaft and power one axle in a Hustler. 
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on January 05 2015 3:20:59 PM
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 Posted - January 05 2015 : 4:54:53 PM
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Nelson,
What Bachmann motor are you talking about? My experience with the steam engines with the white pancake motor has all been very negative. The gear train was awful and the motor case structure was weak. Usually the hotter they got the slower they went. The pancake diesels are way on the negative side too.
quote:It shows that it was more a matter of price point than motor type. Heck, all of the old tinplate Standard and O gauge locos had giant pancake motors, but they were built like household appliances and last forever. Marklin also used pancake motors with spur gears in HO locos, but built to a high standard.
Even the Bachmann motors and gearing were more robust than Tyco's; it was their plastic axles that usually did them in.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â December 13 2014Â :Â 10:21:09 PM
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Regards, John
What do elephants do for laughs? ... They tell Obama jokes.
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Posted - January 05 2015 : 9:39:40 PM
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rgcw5, I'll be putting some videos up pretty soon.
NickelPlate759, one good example would be the Trix 2-8-2, which has a completely wormless drive and coreless motor. The sample reviewed by MR moved so freely, they couldn't stop it on a grade! As for that coreless gearmotor, maybe you could have it drive a parallel shaft below it to get power to both axles in a Hustler!
JRG1951, it's the standard 4-wheel diesel truck. The more common ones we all know of weren't so good, but the original version from the early 70s is a pretty good runner! I have a U36B powered by one, and that thing is so trouble free that it'll keep running along while my Athearns get all sorts of maintenance! It had higher current windings with pretty decent torque, stronger black plastic gears, and big heavy square brushes with leaf springs instead of the wimpy little things with coils that almost do something.
Darth Santa Fe, doing weird and challenging projects for the fun of it!
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Posted - January 05 2015 : 9:46:25 PM
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John, those are the ones. Every one I've had has run cool and been reliable, in spite of the noise. Never had a problem with my old 0-6-0's that I ran quite a bit. I have about 3 of the Reading Consolidations up and running that started as basket cases; all needed at least one axle repaired and quartered. Like the PT's, the motors shouldn't overheat if the brushes and commutator are kept clean and oil free.
The earliest versions of the 2-8-0's and Northerns had the armature and magnets housed in one side of the diecast split frame, and were quieter because of it. They also benefited from bronze bearings.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - January 05 2015 : 9:50:36 PM
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quote:As for that coreless gearmotor, maybe you could have it drive a parallel shaft below it to get power to both axles in a Hustler!
Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe - January 05 2015 : 9:39:40 PM
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Or maybe a Lionel Husky with a belt drive a la the Penn Line D1 Midget.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - January 05 2015 : 10:26:45 PM
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Now that'll give you a real slow gear ratio! You'd be counting the ties at full speed!
Darth Santa Fe, doing weird and challenging projects for the fun of it!
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Posted - January 05 2015 : 10:47:01 PM
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In a D1? You'd have to shoot it in time lapse just to see it move. It wouldn't fit, tho.
I just did a test fit in a Husky, and it would fit if you carved out the top of the stock motor to make a mounting cradle, with pulleys & a belt to drive the worm shaft. The Huskys have 10T axle gears with double lead worms for a final ratio of only 5:1!
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - January 06 2015 : 11:20:43 AM
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Ok guys,
These are the Bachmann motors I have condemned as a source of endless frustration.
I too had a old 2-8-0, but it was cast in my junk box. the drive train was like the picture below
Would one of you mind posting a image or link to show the type of frames & motors you are referring to. I am curious.
Regards, John
Why do elephants have trunks? ..... Because Thongs are too revealing.
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Posted - January 06 2015 : 9:33:52 PM
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Here's the early drive truck:
The gearing and all is basically the same as the one you posted, but the materials are better quality and it has a stronger motor. This truck is over 40 years old, and all it's ever needed beyond a new tire is the typical oil and grease now and then!
Darth Santa Fe, doing weird and challenging projects for the fun of it!
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Posted - January 07 2015 : 12:28:06 PM
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DSF,
Thanks for the information, This may keep me from junking some bachmann models in the future.
Regards, John
Why are elephants gray?....So you wouldn't think they were bluebirds.
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Posted - January 07 2015 : 6:53:49 PM
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quote:Here's the early drive truck:
The gearing and all is basically the same as the one you posted, but the materials are better quality and it has a stronger motor. This truck is over 40 years old, and all it's ever needed beyond a new tire is the typical oil and grease now and then!
Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe - January 06 2015 : 9:33:52 PM
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Believe it or not, it actually reminds me of the AHM/Mehano BL2 diesel drives. Is it from the same manufacturer?
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - January 07 2015 : 8:32:53 PM
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quote:Here's the early drive truck:
The gearing and all is basically the same as the one you posted, but the materials are better quality and it has a stronger motor. This truck is over 40 years old, and all it's ever needed beyond a new tire is the typical oil and grease now and then!
Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe - January 06 2015 : 9:33:52 PM
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Pretty stout looking motor. I don't believe I've seen one before.
~ Dave
They're ALL toys
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