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 Posted - September 26 2014 : 12:44:21 AM
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Hi, and thanks in advance for helping out!
I've lifted this image from another post:
I just picked up an A-B set identical to this for $16. They don't look quite this good having seen a lot of use and with a bit of corrosion present. However, both units ran immediately when placed on the track and powered up. Mechanically and electrically, they need to be thoroughly cleaned and lubed and could probably use new brushes.
How hard are brushes to get hold of?
I am assuming that these were made shortly before TYCO started making sharks in plastic. Is that correct?
Are these particular engines rare or sought after by TYCO collectors? I'm not asking because I hope to get rich from them but only because I don't want to strip the car bodies without knowing whether they are something that needs to be preserved.
Thanks for any answers you can provide.
Glen
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Posted - September 26 2014 : 08:38:03 AM
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Congrats on the nice find, Glen! You got BOTH A and B units, and BOTH are powered? The B unit is harder to find, and if it's powered...that's awesome! 
They are "rare" to some degree, but not high-$ sought after, by any means. I have an A unit myself, paint all beat and scratched up. Unless it's mint, you won't hurt it's value by restoring it in my opinion. These are the pre-plastic versions. At $16 you got one heck of a deal !
Far as brushes, I've not tried to locate any for mine, but there should be some out there that fit, I believe they used the older MU-2 motors in these Sharks / RF-16 units. I've used Aurora slot car brushes in the next-generation Tyco motor, the PT, and they work fine, so there should be some out there for this older motor, too. The motors are different that the brushes won't interchange, though.
Please post some pics of your A-B units together when you can. Like I said, the B unit is hard to come by, and I"d like to see another one, especially with it's A brother. 
Anyway, welcome to the Forum, it's a fun place to learn more about Tyco, Mantua, and other maker's products. And meet nice people, too. 
Jerry in VA
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - September 26 2014 : 6:18:03 PM
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I usually clean my brushes with a q tip and rubbing alcohol. Setting the brushes in the rubbing alcohol helps as it'll slowly remove oils and residues around it. New brushes for these ain't made and require some mad scientist skills and looking around online for a close match. That and the old carbon brush is solder on and would be heck to install new ones on the brass tabs. A stiff plastic bristle to the commutator will make the motor much better.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - September 26 2014 : 6:33:37 PM
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Man, I have yet to see one of those go for as cheap as you got them. Let alone a nice diesel for that runs well at that price. The only one I've found like that is a 1980's, 1990's Bachmann GP-18 for $12.Really cool find.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - September 27 2014 : 12:37:07 AM
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Thanks, Jerry!
After taking a close look at the motors, there's much more left on the brushes than I had thought. The motors are dirty but appear to be in very good shape otherwise. I think once they are cleaned and lubed, they will run very well. Also need to optimize electrical pickup.
Once they are running well, I may put them up for sale briefly on eBay and see if any collectors want them. If they don't sell, I will strip, pickle and prime the metal bodies before painting them. The trick will be to seal the metal surface without losing any of the cast-in detail.
I have seen other Mantua metal sharks for sale at reasonable prices, so we'll give some avid collector a shot at these before messing with them.
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Posted - September 27 2014 : 1:19:09 PM
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Welcome to the forum, Eddystone.
The people here are full of model train knowledge (and some other stuff, too.)
Nice find on the sharks. Never seen any myself.
Evan
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Posted - October 01 2014 : 11:35:14 PM
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The shark in your borrowed picture is one of the original diecast units from the mid-50's. These use what is referred to as the Mantua "PM-1" motor, which is a durable and serviceable - if rather weak - unit. I have a few of these and after a basic teardown and rebuild, they run quite smooth and quietly but can barely get out of their own way. That was actually a common complaint back then!
The second revision is easy to spot thanks to a notch on the side sill over the rear truck, and cooling slots cut into the roof. The notch allowed a crude gimball mount to be used, although the motor was basically the same. Interestingly, the shell was also lightened some. These came in the flashy "McDonaldland Red-and-Yellow" fantasy scheme, as well as a scarcer fantasy Union Pacific and quite rare (and accurate) Pennsy. These were gone by 1961. The painted units can sometimes fetch more interest... but the paint wears incredibly easily.
In 1975 the A unit was retooled for plastic and the MU-2 motor. If you look closely at the radiator grille section of the roof, you can see where the previous cooling slots were patched over.
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