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 Posted - December 01 2013 : 3:56:04 PM
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Is a Tyco F9 Really a F7? The dynamic brake fan is the smaller fan used on most of the F7s and the location of the front port hole is correct for the F7. I have included some images that show a Bachmann F9 with these details modeled correctly for and F9.
Regards John ********
“The choice for mankind lies between freedom and happiness and for the great bulk of mankind, happiness is better.” <> George Orwell, 1984
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Posted - December 01 2013 : 5:34:35 PM
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John - you got me curious and I set off on a Google search. The differences between the F7 and F9 are mainly gradual and unseen, and even the diameter of the dynamic brake fan is not reliable in determining what is what.
This is probably the best guide I found: http://trainweb.org/jfuhrtrain/CF7frames/F7Phases/F7phase.html
The only reliable difference, mentioned by many sources, is the existence on the F9 of vertical louvers before the first porthole (and ironically I don't see louvers before the first porthole on either example you posted!).
But anyway, there is plenty of interesting reading from many sources when I entered "differences between F7 and F9" on Google. 
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - December 01 2013 : 8:15:43 PM
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The research I've done indicate the following:
1. Some late F7As had 48 inch brake fans.
2. The placement of the port hole was unique to the F9A.
3. The F9A new units were never built with 36 inch Fans.
Many F units were upgraded to later units, so the TYCO Fs could represent a unit upgraded to F9 status. The TYCO units resemble new F7As.
Regards, John **********
I admire Lance Armstrong for winning 7 Tour de France races while doing drugs.
When I do drugs I can't find my bike. <> Willie Nelson
Edited by - JRG1951 on December 01 2013 8:17:30 PM
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Posted - December 01 2013 : 8:53:40 PM
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quote:
Many F units were upgraded to later units, so the TYCO Fs could represent a unit upgraded to F9 status. The TYCO units resemble new F7As.
Regards, John **********
I admire Lance Armstrong for winning 7 Tour de France races while doing drugs.
When I do drugs I can't find my bike. <> Willie Nelson
Originally posted by JRG1951 - December 01 2013 : 8:15:43 PM
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I would agree with all that, based on what I've read too.
Although it could very well be a F7 that Tyco just decided to call a F9, it's impossible to 'prove' otherwise 
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - December 01 2013 : 9:24:55 PM
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Jerry,
I think what bothers me most is I'm beginning to sound and act like a rivet counter. Not that I have anything against rivet counters, I just never imagined fitting that mold. I guess in the end it is better to run the beast than to identify them. Running a Challenger or Big Boy with Railbox cars is OK if your happy.
Regards, John *******************
There are three reasons why politicians are replacing rats as laboratory research animals.
1. They are more plentiful,
2. Lab assistants don't get so attached to them
3. They are some things that rats won't do.
>>Blanche Knott
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Posted - December 01 2013 : 10:15:05 PM
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Oh no, the first symptoms of rivet counting disease! 
But you know I see what you mean, when somebody calls a locomotive a F7 or F9, you want to be able to look at it and think "yeah I see that", without going to the extreme of measuring the wheel centers and counting the......rivets.....
Let me try that again You want to recognize the reason that Tyco or whoever calls it what they are calling it. Or at least I do. I run very "un-rivet counter" consists myself, as well as mixing a lot of eras in trains and scenery - but I also enjoy learning about the finer details like difference in locomotive models, the history and all the various phases, and knowing what is 'correct'.
I'll stop babbling now....
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - December 02 2013 : 03:21:38 AM
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Tyco's original F shell was a clone of the Athearn/Globe F7. They likely called it an F9 to try to confuse the issue.
The F9 usually has a different style of vents in the porthole band, paired rows of slots instead of stamped louvers.
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Posted - December 02 2013 : 5:34:06 PM
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Oh here we go, it's going to get interesting now 
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - December 02 2013 : 6:31:03 PM
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John.
I beg to differ. All of the F units except the FTs had the option of steam generators. All of the F2/3A, F7A, and the F9A could be equipped with steam generators. The FTB, F2/3B, F7B, and the F9B could be fitted with a steam generator. This option would use part of the normal fuel tank for water for the heating of the passenger cars. Many RR companies chose to place the unit only in the B units. Often the railroad opted for a higher gear ration on their passenger F Units.
The FP7/9 were longer units designed to make more room for the generator and water it needed.
The FL9 was equipped with this option, some were later removed and had HEP units installed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F-unit
And that is all I know about that.
Regards, John ***************
There are three principal ways to lose money: wine, women, and engineers. While the first two are more pleasant, the third is by far the more certain. <> Baron Rothschild
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Posted - December 02 2013 : 9:26:23 PM
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The NC&StL had steam generators in their B units for passenger service duty, none in their A units.
And...
Neither the Bachmann nor the Tyco units pictured above are "FP" units - nor are the many Globe/Athearn/etc. units mentioned above. The FP7 and FP9 were a good 6 feet (? going from memory here which is troublesome ?) longer than their F siblings. I have an Atlas Austria FP7, and putting it beside a F7 the difference is clear.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - December 03 2013 : 9:43:51 PM
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Not disagreeing with you really, just in my experience the term 'FP' refers to the stretched F units specifically. In later years, FP7s were used as freight diesels but were still "FP7s", even if the steam generator had been removed.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - December 03 2013 : 11:39:36 PM
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If you want to go by the Wiki:
"A total of 381 cab-equipped lead A units were built; unlike the freight series, no cabless booster B units were sold. Regular F7B units were sometimes used with FP7 A units, since they, lacking cabs, had more room for water and steam generators. The FP7 and its successor, the FP9, were offshoots of GM-EMD's highly successful F-unit series of cab unit freight diesels.
F3s, F7s, and F9s equipped for passenger service are not FP-series locomotives , which although similar in appearance have distinctive differences, including but not limited to the greater body length. The extra 4 ft (1.2 m) of length was added behind the first body-side porthole, and can be recognised by the greater distance between that porthole and the first small carbody filter grille. The corresponding space beneath the body, behind the front truck, was also opened up; this either remained an empty space or was filled with a distinctive water tank shaped like a barrel mounted transversely."
I've removed my previous comments.
Z
I don't have a one track mind. It depends on the turn-out.
"I love your catenary!"
Is that a power-trip or just another pick-up line?
Edited by - zebrails on December 03 2013 11:42:00 PM
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Posted - December 04 2013 : 3:15:46 PM
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| FP7 is longer mostly for more water carrying capacity; B-unit's lack of cab provided the additional space on those units.
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