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 Posted - November 22 2013 : 09:28:58 AM
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The topic is the ALCO RS line of odd and upgraded units. Cool paint schemes are OK too.
My entry this morning [not my photo] is a steam generator equipped RSD. The are nicknamed Hammerheads
Regards, John
I call for a vote on Ben's proposal! Any man who votes against it is a traitor to his country! <> 'Rotten Luck'Willie - Paint Your Wagon
Edited by - JRG1951 on November 22 2013 10:28:29 PM
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Posted - November 22 2013 : 10:48:27 AM
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my oddball would be the rsd-1 converted to a shrouded streamlined loco rf1a,ken
/tyco/forum/uploaded/catfordken/20131122104229_2664_zpscb5e54c1.jpg
scroll down the list for a model of it
http://alaskamodelrrnews.homestead.com/Alco.html
Edited by - catfordken on November 22 2013 10:49:09 AM
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Posted - November 22 2013 : 11:33:17 AM
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Kenneth,
cool, I had forgot about the covered units.
This is a shot [Not My Photo] of the fist unit done by International Railway Car & Equipment Manufacturing Co.
After the first set the units were done by Puget Sound Bridge & Dredging Co and the railroad shops.
Regards, John ***************
Welcome to the party, pal. <> John McClane - Die Hard
Edited by - JRG1951 on November 22 2013 11:34:02 AM
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Posted - November 22 2013 : 12:01:40 PM
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Sorry, don't think these are either Alco or RS, but here are the New Haven's Dan'l Webster:
and Roger Williams:
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
Edited by - Mustangs_n_Trains on November 22 2013 12:02:30 PM
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Posted - November 22 2013 : 2:45:08 PM
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| How about an RS2/3 with EMD repowering where it got a GP9 long hood? Some Baldwin AS16s went the same way. And, some RS2/3 got the treatment by Alco with RS11 hoods.
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Posted - November 22 2013 : 4:24:02 PM
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Ivrr,
Here are some pictures of those type rebuilds.
Regards, John *******************
The meek shall inherit the Earth, but not its mineral rights. <> J. Paul Getty
Edited by - JRG1951 on November 22 2013 4:24:28 PM
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Posted - November 22 2013 : 10:05:58 PM
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Amtrak had some RS3Ms for yard service
Regards, John
I want three volunteers to go out on a patrol, you, you, and you. You're in charge, Holley. <> Sgt. Walowicz - Battleground
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Posted - November 23 2013 : 08:26:36 AM
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ALASKA RS-1 MODIFIED ken
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Posted - November 24 2013 : 01:39:30 AM
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The ARR 1000 sure has a low nose, neat loco.
The Dan'l Webster I found out is a Baldwin product. It could be an accurate prototype for a four wheel drive diesel. I wonder if it had traction tires. The Roger Williams I suspect is a RDC with a nose job.
_________________________________________________
Now a few more rebuilds
Delaware and Hudson Railway had eight RS3u locomotives rebuilt by Morrison-Knudsen
Regards, John ********
Work thou not on energized equipment, for if thou dost, thy fellow modelers will surely buy beers for thy widow <> Unknown
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Posted - November 24 2013 : 7:30:09 PM
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My GAWD......................SOME "Odd" ducks here........... Boy, you weren't kiddin' with the "odd ones" comment! 
Identity Crisis?  
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
Edited by - EM-1 on November 24 2013 7:30:37 PM
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Posted - November 24 2013 : 8:36:14 PM
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Yea!
The RS units were cheap and abundant, so they were altered and kept running.
Here are some more that were rebuilt with E unit engines. These were truly 2 for 1 rebuilds.
I passenger E unit = 2 reliable EMD powered freight units.
The 567 and the exhaust just did not fit that ALCO hood
Regards, John ***
I've read the last page of the Bible. It's all going to turn out all right. <> Billy Graham
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Posted - November 26 2013 : 03:54:27 AM
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LV 212:2 was originally a PRR engine; about 1969 LV traded to parent Penn Central three of it's rougher RS2s for better RS3s that PC had been planning to trade in. They went by mechanical condition at that point and picked the best three. This engine was ordered by the PRR basically for one assignment, a passenger protection job, so it had dynamic brakes and a steam generator, which is why the tall short hood.
Then, somehow it got chosen for the Conrail continuation of Penn Central's "Dewitt Geep" rebuild program (originally named for the shop the first ones were built at).
It still exists at the Rochester & Genesee Valley railroad museum, where they run it occasionally.
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Posted - November 26 2013 : 10:18:17 AM
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Here is more on the ARR 1050A & 1050B.
The photos are taken in Ohio, most likely by the builder. Note the 3 axle D trucks from the original Army RSD1. These beasts look like a cheap 1960 Japanese tin stamped train. When the said they were ugly, they weren't just whistling Dixie.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20131126101226_RSD1.jpg
More Information can be found here: http://www.alaskarails.org/pix/former-loco/1050AB/index.html
Regards John *******
To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on
feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will. <> Ronald Reagan
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Posted - December 02 2013 : 11:05:36 AM
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How would like to deal with this before you could go to work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3lzdaC8yQ4
Regards, John ***************
It takes a woman twenty years to make a man of her son, and another woman twenty minutes to make a fool of him. <> Helen Rowland
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Posted - December 03 2013 : 10:13:07 AM
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Would you believe Russian RSD1s
In the beginning of WWII the US government appropriated all of the ALCO RS1 production and converted them to 6 wheel trucks. More were built for the military and overseas service. Many of these units went to the Siberian Railroad in Russia.
http://www.berail.be/usa/rs1/
These units were so successful the Russians and other Soviet Block countries made copies and improved on the design for many years.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20131203100142_tem1.jpg
http://alcoworld.railfan.net/plagiate.htm
Thanks for the information on the LV Hammerhead Ivrr.
Regards, John *****************
Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife. <> Douglas Adams
Edited by - JRG1951 on December 03 2013 10:20:28 AM
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Posted - December 05 2013 : 11:26:23 AM
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Well a lot of the ALCOs posted here have been derived from the Army RSD1s. A little information on these should be posted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALCO_RSD-1
/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20131205110350_USA_RSD1.jpg
http://www.jble.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123241289
Regards, John *****************
Some people regard private enterprise as a predatory tiger to be shot. Others look on it as a cow they can milk. Not enough people see it as a healthy horse, pulling a sturdy wagon. <> Winston Churchill
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Posted - December 07 2013 : 3:14:13 PM
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Here's one - Winchester & Western 120 - started as an RS, converted to a road slug, then had a SW control cab added by the W&W...
(Ex-Conrail MT4 1020 re-built 08/79 from Conrail RS11 7647 > nee Penn Central 7647 > nee PRR 8647 built 11/57. The cab on WW 120 was added in 2005 from an old Indiana Harbor Belt SW1500)
Edited by - Vanderbilt on December 07 2013 9:17:40 PM
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Posted - December 07 2013 : 11:40:41 PM
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Jim
That is a cool unique slug.
***************************************
How do you get a diesel road locomotive quickly.
If you are ALCO, you take a yard switcher and stretch the frame, add road trucks, and a short hood. You then build that locomotive from 1941 to 1960 until it stays in production longer than any other diesel locomotive.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20131207233436_RS1_S4.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALCO_RS-1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALCO_S-2_and_S-4
Regards John **********************
If I take one more step, it'll be the farthest away from home I've ever been. <> Sam - Lord of the Rings
Edited by - JRG1951 on December 07 2013 11:46:15 PM
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Posted - December 12 2013 : 11:43:14 AM
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Some RS1s with a long career.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20131212113037_MoreRs.jpg
1>http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24695
2>http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopicture.aspx?id=17783
3>http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopicture.aspx?id=30659
4>http://archive.is/WwWaa
Regards, John ********************
Ineptocracy(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) - a system of government where the
least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing,
and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves
or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the
confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
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Posted - December 12 2013 : 8:20:43 PM
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here ya go....rebuilt RS-11 south of the border 
just me Ray... and just because I have Tyco doesn't mean I am not a model railroader
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Posted - December 12 2013 : 10:32:41 PM
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Looks like a rebuild of this one. Or vice versa:
From "The Contemporary Diesel Spotter's Guide" by Louis A. Marre and Jerry A. Pinkepank Copyright 1989
Glenn
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"
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Posted - December 17 2013 : 11:33:30 AM
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Glenn & Ray,
Those or should I say that is truly Bizarre, a true cur locomotive. I guess back then the labor was cheap.
I was told back in the 70s that the Southern Pacific would stop traffic into Mexico at El Paso until the the NdeM would return some of the American freight cars in Mexico.
My addition this week is a rebuild done in Canada.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20131217112443_IRR.jpg
http://www.industrialrail.ca/locomotive.html
Regards, John ************************
When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour.......That's relativity. <> Albert Einstein
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Posted - December 17 2013 : 11:42:22 AM
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"The Alco RSD 1 were built from 1942, some delivered to the US Army, 70 were shipped to the Soviet Railways and further diesel developments
RS3m
Edited by - catfordken on December 17 2013 11:47:31 AM
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Posted - January 07 2014 : 4:06:41 PM
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Well it is not an ALCO RS but it is an ALCO, and it is an odd ball. The original DL109s had Plywood sides.
Rebuilt Milwaukee Road #14, "Old Maude," A modified ALCO DL109
Look on page 3 for the story of Old Maude
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CFMQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmilwaukeeroadarchives.com%2FMilwaukeeRoadMagazine%2F1953August.pdf&ei=IWLMUsTUK5HfkQelpoCICw&usg=AFQjCNGWeMjyrBorNvkwQGoAgY1O05tJbg&sig2=nYlXGShbGvj25S8mqqc-4g&bvm=bv.58187178,d.eW0
Regards, John ****
There is no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: Defeat it or be defeated by it. <> Tony Blair
Edited by - JRG1951 on January 07 2014 6:14:32 PM
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Posted - January 07 2014 : 7:01:11 PM
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quote:Rebuilt Milwaukee Road #14, "Old Maude," A modified ALCO DL109
Originally posted by JRG1951Â -Â January 07 2014Â :Â 4:06:41 PM
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That rebuilt 14B is a cool looking engine. I always liked that wheel arrangement under the engine, but the droopy looking nose (as built) looked wimpy to me. The new windshield and nose fix that for an all around classy look.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - January 08 2014 : 12:22:23 AM
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| I find some references that FCP 521 and NdeM 7294 are different units, and some that they're the same, but long hood end photos show one has a Canadian RS-18 type hood and the other an RS-11 type notched hood. The NdeM unit did start out with the same sort of rounded nose made out of EMD F-unit parts, but it appears later it was CF-7-ized.
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Posted - January 09 2014 : 11:39:42 AM
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Don,
I have a theory. I think that the DL-109 nose styling was influenced by the design of Boeing's revolutionary bomber aircraft of the day. The XB-17 was the latest greatest coolest aircraft of it's day. Much like the F-22 Raptor today. Just a theory.
Regards, John **********
Fighter pukes make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! <> Lt. Jake Grafton - Flight of the Intruder
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Posted - January 09 2014 : 1:28:12 PM
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I wouldn't have thought of it, but there is a resemblance.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - February 03 2014 : 4:56:32 PM
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The big one that did not make the cut. Only 3 were built.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20140203165200_AlcoC855.jpg
http://www.worldrailfans.info/Articles/US/DoubleDiesels.shtml
http://www.american-rails.com/alco-c855.html
Regards, John **************************
Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries. <> Douglas Case
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Posted - February 03 2014 : 5:11:39 PM
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OK I admit I'm being lazy and not looking this up - but is the Alco 855 essentially two Alco 430 diesels put together?
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - February 03 2014 : 6:45:31 PM
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Jerry,
It was more like 2 C425s. It had 2 16cyl 251Cs. The C430 had 16cyl 251D engines. The model was in competition with the U50C and the DD35. The GE U50 = 2 U25Bs with 2 16cyl FDL engines. The EMD DD35 = 2 GP35s with 2 16cyl 567D3As.
In the late 60s GE produces a U50 with 4 axle trucks and 2 12cyl FDL engines. EMD built an improved engine that was a DD40AX with 2 16cyl 6453A engines. The Athearn DD40 model never existed as a real engine. The UP EMD engines were built with a wide nose.
Regards, John **********
24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I think not. <> H. L. Mencken
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Posted - February 04 2014 : 06:44:18 AM
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quote:Jerry,
It was more like 2 C425s. It had 2 16cyl 251Cs. The C430 had 16cyl 251D engines. The model was in competition with the U50C and the DD35. The GE U50 = 2 U25Bs with 2 16cyl FDL engines. The EMD DD35 = 2 GP35s with 2 16cyl 567D3As.
In the late 60s GE produces a U50 with 4 axle trucks and 2 12cyl FDL engines. EMD built an improved engine that was a DD40AX with 2 16cyl 6453A engines. The Athearn DD40 model never existed as a real engine. The UP EMD engines were built with a wide nose.
Originally posted by JRG1951Â -Â February 03 2014Â :Â 6:45:31 PM
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Thanks for the info John. These big two-motor diesels are a favorite of mine, along with the gas turbines. Looking at your photos, I was wondering....how hard a project it would be to kitbash a close approximation of the 855. Using two shells, and an Athearn powered chassis for the middle two trucks....and then adding on the two outboard trucks.....
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - February 04 2014 : 11:16:36 AM
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Jerry,
I have never tried a kit bash that extensive. I did look at doing what you are talking about for early UP gas turbine using a commercial cast resin body. This was before the Athearn turbine units were available. The front and rear trucks are connected with a floating booster on the real 855. The first and fourth truck could be mounted like leading and trailing trucks on a steam engine. The pilot on the 855 is floating so coupler swing would not be a problem. you would need to mount a pilot to the first truck.
The body would need to be scratch built with perhaps parts from scrap ALCO engines. A more freelanced engine could be built using 2 C4XX bodies. I think it would be a difficult but interesting project
Regards, John *********
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. <> Sir Winston Churchill
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Posted - February 04 2014 : 3:43:22 PM
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John - I took a closer look at the 855 today with this kitbash in mind and discovered that this loco is far more unique than I assumed. To do a serious representation would involve a lot of fabricating. However...not impossible.
Looking at the truck arrangement though....well I wish we lived in a world where Athearn Gas Turbines or U50s were piled up in the sale box at the next train show! Would make things simpler for sure. Your description of a possible truck arrangement sounds like a good alternative though.
Playing around on Trainiax today, I used a Alco C425 as a donor. The distance between the trucks on a 425 and the distance between the second and third trucks on a 855 aren't too far apart - the 425 has more space, not sure what it translates to in scale feet - maybe 4-5 ft? Even using the 425 wheelbase as the standard to start with, the resulting Frankenstein doesn't end up any longer than a DD40AX.
I know this is going to continue to simmer in my head. I may look at it as a further 'what-if' project, similar (but far more complex) to the DD40B I made. Never existed, but could have if the powers that be had wanted it. Maybe call it an Alco 860? But unlike the DD40B, I want this one to be powered.
http://tycodepot.com/
Edited by - JNXT 7707 on February 04 2014 3:45:32 PM
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Posted - February 04 2014 : 6:17:08 PM
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Jerry,
The truck arrangement was yours, we just had matching Ideas. I think I would start with a Athearn Blue box U Boat with four axle trucks. It would be easier to modify and get parts for. If the wheel base is to long then use a GP7 or F7 Frame. That is the beauty of the Athearn drive train, the four axle trucks will take the AAR type B road truck side frames. If not Athearn then Modern Bachmann.
You could freelance and use two 4 axle C425 or C430 bodies and do like GE and EMD did and build an improved Century 855, like you said and 860. A century 860 with 6000 HP.
What is Trainiax?
Regards, John *************************
Let me tell you something that we Israelis have against Moses. He took us 40 years through the desert in order to bring us to the one spot in the Middle East that has no oil! <> Golda Meir
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Posted - February 04 2014 : 6:27:43 PM
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Yep I was wondering about maybe looking toward an Athearn F7 frame to shorten things up, with the U-boat trucks in the mix too.
Trainiax is a pretty cool site, has drawings of locomotives you can use to explore paint schemes or crazy kitbashes such as this ....or just have fun looking
http://trainiax.net/
Going to start a thread on it when I get enough 'parts' to get an idea of what is going together, don't want to get this thread off track.
http://tycodepot.com/
Edited by - JNXT 7707 on February 10 2014 7:32:50 PM
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Posted - February 10 2014 : 10:48:49 PM
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Missouri Pacific EMD ALCOS GP12 & GP16
http://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/loco_1gen_rs.html
/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20140210224505_gp12.gif
/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20140210224244_gp16.gif
Regards John *************
Keep your faith in God, but keep your powder dry. <> Oliver Cromwell
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Posted - February 12 2014 : 6:11:47 PM
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Not a RS but I stumbled across this beast researching the 855. I think it also had a German-made hydraulic transmission....and only 3 of them made.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - February 13 2014 : 3:41:09 PM
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Jerry,
How is the weather?
I knew about the Krauss-Maffei diesel Hydraulics, I did not know about these ALCO engines. Here is what I know now.
ALCO C-643DH
C=Century / 6=6axles / 43=4300 HP / D=Diesel / H=Hydraulic
ALCO diesel hydraulics [C-643DH] were built for the Southern Pacific. These were to supplement the Krauss-Maffei diesel Hydraulics.
Beware, some of this post will be based on educated guesses:
The Southern Pacific Hydraulic program was an effort to get the maximum HP into a given unit. The period that this program was started, the existing electrical motors and generators had reached their physical limits. If the motor was made bigger then it would not fit in the existing trucks. The systems would need to be re-engineered on a complete locomotive basis. 2500 HP was the limit on a electrical motored 6 axle units. The ALCO C-643DH using hydraulic motors could produce about the same HP as a modern SD70 or 8-44CW
The ALCOs were to allow the maximum use of American made components in the program. The German engines required more maintenance then similar rated American engines.
These Hydraulic drive locomotives were soon limited to low grade [non-mountain] assignments. I suspect the lack of dynimac brakes may have justified these assignments.
Industry improvements in motor insulation and the improved generators & alternators, were factors in the death of this hydraulic program. The use of Kapton allowed higher HP motor to fit the existing diesel electric truck designs.
http://wx4.org/to/foam/sp/locos/hydro/oktoberfest.html
Regards, John *****************
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. -- Aesop
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Posted - February 13 2014 : 4:36:25 PM
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quote:
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. -- Aesop
Originally posted by JRG1951Â -Â February 13 2014Â :Â 3:41:09 PM
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I didn't know that Aesop was from Chicago.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - February 13 2014 : 6:28:15 PM
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John - Don't ask me about the weather  My main thought this morning was: if there is anything that can speed global warming, let's all chip in and see what we can do to help
That is fascinating information on the SP Hydraulic Program, I had no idea it was anything more than a brief experiment with those Krauss-Maffei locomotives. And speaking of which, here's some more of which I was not aware of: http://sp9010.ncry.org/otherkm.htm
/tyco/forum/uploaded/JNXT 7707/20140213182749_9004km01.jpg
Looks a lot like that Alco from the cab back, doesn't it?
http://tycodepot.com/
Edited by - JNXT 7707 on February 13 2014 6:29:41 PM
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Posted - February 16 2014 : 12:03:05 PM
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Something more in line with the topic, a 'reworked' RS-11 in Mexico - thanks to Ray (rgcw5):
http://tycodepot.com/
Edited by - JNXT 7707 on February 16 2014 12:04:47 PM
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Posted - February 19 2014 : 02:40:23 AM
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This is the one true oddball on the LC&P. We shall call it C-6-RSDP-GP-22 and one-half....M. Sometimes it actually runs, mostly it takes up space at the engine house. This hot mess is a genuine scrap box special. It is a true act of trust in sharing this with my fellow Tyco fans because it is quite possibly the worst modeling I have ever done, take it in and have a good laugh. You have my blessing..ha,ha 
Edited by - metalsmith1 on February 19 2014 02:48:47 AM
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 Posted - February 19 2014 : 07:58:51 AM
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That is......
A true testament to the resourcefulness of the LC&P shops....
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - February 20 2014 : 02:40:50 AM
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| We'll blame this one on the apprentices, the journeymen in the back shop must have been on holiday
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Posted - February 20 2014 : 3:45:37 PM
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I have a similar ....ummm..."creation", that the JNXT roundhouse churned out a few years ago, but it's not an Alco - and I have been hijacking this thread enough
*relief spreads throughout the Tyco Forum*
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - February 20 2014 : 8:40:04 PM
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I never thought an HO locomotive could make me wince. Congrats on the self-propelled scrap heap honestly though, that's pretty impressive. All it needs now is a fuel tank!
--CRC
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Posted - February 20 2014 : 8:50:03 PM
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not bad, metalsmith
Put a belly tank on it, couplers & some headlights & its all good to go places & switch cars
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Posted - February 20 2014 : 9:23:07 PM
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Jerry,
Show us your creation, you cannot hijack a thread that belongs to you and the rest of us.
I hope to take an AHM RS2 and graph a AHM GP18 Engine shell on the back and create a rebuild. I would like to take another AHM RS2 and a RS11 and create another rebuild. Both of this type of rebuilds are pictured in this thread. These rebuilds would use the RS2 frame, short hood and cab as the basis for a locomotives that has been updated to GP9 and RS11 standards.
Regards, John ******************
Electric vehicles are for golf courses. <> Unknown
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Posted - February 21 2014 : 02:07:17 AM
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Here is the prototype that was the inspiration for my LC&P unit. I took this photo in a scrap yard in Wood River Illinois where this thing was sent for last rights. Glad I got there when I did, I think they cut it up a few days later Oh yeah, the fuel tank on the LC&P was a from a Tyco F-unit.... it fell off. 
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Posted - February 21 2014 : 12:13:21 PM
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Used Parts!
I noticed this while looking at the post for the MPRR GP16s..
The Missouri Pacific was resourceful, They used some parts in three different sets of locomotives or rebuilds.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20140221121054_Parts.gif
http://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/loco_1gen_rs.html
Regards, John *******************
The class of citizens who provide at once their own food and their own raiment, may be viewed as the most truly independent and happy. <> James Madison
Edited by - JRG1951 on February 21 2014 1:46:03 PM
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