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 Posted - September 17 2013 : 06:38:47 AM
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I had a interesting thing happen last night that defies all logic. I've been running this IHC Pacific around my little 12x8 "L" layout, and it's been running smooth. Pretty new, not a ton of run time on it.
So before dinner I go to run it around the layout after it's sat for a few hours, and it barely makes it. Stalls, stutters....even quits on a few spots. WT....? What changed? Nothing!
This drives me nuts. I clean the track, no improvement. Clean the drivers - all pickup comes from the 6 drivers. Nothing. I clean the INSIDE of the drivers, where the wipers wipe, even give it a drop or two of lube on the gears and axles. Runs even worse. UGHHHHHHHHH. I'm at the end of my rope, because everything is clean, the loco was running smooth as silk just hours before....and now it's junk.
Sooo...after dinner, I take the loco upstairs to my big loop, so if if maybe it can work itseld out up there. It runs better, but still stutters and dies on a turnout. I keep at it - what else can I do? - and it finally begins to maintain some consistency. Take it back down to the "L", hook it up to its tender and 3-car passenger considt, and HEY...it's back to business, running like butter.
Any guesses as to what is happening? I had this happen a few years back on a Atlas Austria FP7 - I had taken it apart to clean/lube, and it worked like crap until it had "run-in" for a while.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - September 17 2013 : 06:51:58 AM
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Jerry,
Sounds like a blue arc short....Could be wrong but sounds to me as if something within the motor itself is shorting it out and the movement is allowing it to free up the short circuit.
Could be in the commutator, or other confines of that motor. MAYBE even wires, touching within the boiler too, headlight, motor, you name it any where the wires "cross" paths and even touch even with insolation on them, worn through....This can happen even around the light bulb and those wires as well!
Take the boiler off at some point and check that NOTHING metal is stuck to the magnet on the motor as if its touching that will cause it too if its making contact with something electrical, or carrying electric!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid... 
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 17 2013 : 3:55:26 PM
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Thanks for the ideas John. next time it happens I will take the plunge and remove the boiler and have a look.
Funny thing that stumped me though, and I didn't really stress this in my post, was that the loco would stumble/quit on the same specific parts of my layout - going over a turnout, around a specific curve or set of curves. So it seemed to me like it had something to do with it not getting power for some reason in a specific locale.
Of course as it is running now - it doesn't have an issue at all. I have always been taught that things don't fix themselves, but....
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - September 17 2013 : 3:56:07 PM
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Thanks for the ideas John. next time it happens I will take the plunge and remove the boiler and have a look.
Funny thing that stumped me though, and I didn't really stress this in my post, was that the loco would stumble/quit on the same specific parts of my layout - going over a turnout, around a specific curve or set of curves. So it seemed to me like it had something to do with it not getting power for some reason in a specific locale.
Of course as it is running now - it doesn't have an issue at all. I have always been taught that things don't fix themselves, but....
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - September 18 2013 : 3:37:46 PM
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Jerry,
Anytime, anywhere, that things can toss a monkey wrench, in your plans, (anyone, that is) they....will!
Sure is a head scratcher tho.......I would check to see if they track in those areas where it stopped are live power, with it turned on. Turnouts have always caused loco's with just 6 wheel pick up to have issues.....as the IHC 4-6-2, is just that way, has 6 total wheels to pull power from the rails, 3 each, all next to each other......
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 20 2013 : 12:48:54 AM
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If it acts up again (and it probably will  )...
Check that the pickup wipers on the drivers aren't bent or worn, which could cause them to come out of contact with the rear of the driver tires at certain times, especially on curves. Be sure the wipers on the tender are making solid contact with the axles. The electrical pickup on these locos is very simple and easy to trace, unlike some Rivarossi steamer designs.
If all that checks out, I would check the commutator gaps for compacted brush dust. If it has Mehano's own 3 pole motor, they were famous for this. If it's stalling momentarily and the lights on the power pack dim at the same time, it's either an internal short in the wiring (unlikely), or brush dust shorting the commutator segments. It can be bad enough to mimic burned out motor windings.
Clean the gaps with a thin strip of brass, an old pickup wiper, or the tip of pin. Cleaning the commutator with 90% alcohol and removing and soaking the brushes in it is a good idea, since they are usually oil-soaked anyway.
If it's a later IHC version with a Mabuchi can, it's less likely, but still possible for this to happen, particularly if the brush end of the motor has been over-oiled. They aren't easily opened, but blasting plastic safe contact cleaner through the screw holes will usually clear it out.
Another possibility is that it's been run a lot and the brushes are worn down.
Good luck with your troubleshooting.
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on September 20 2013 12:50:37 AM
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Posted - September 20 2013 : 9:43:22 PM
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John & Nelson - I really appreciate the troubleshooting ideas and tips. It is a newer IHC/Mehano - I have not eyeballed the motor but I believe it's a can.
I have thought up my own theory on this thing - and am curious if you may think it's possible. I've been rebuilding some areas of the layout, and the night this all happened I had re-ballasted a short siding. Is it possible that the wet ballast between the rails was allowing intermittent shorting? About the time I talk myself into this theory and pat myself on the back, I remember I tried another loco on the track at the same time (a P2K FA1) and it had nary an issue...plus the Pacific was having similar issues on the upstairs then too.
Never mind....
PS... the Pacific has ran like a trooper since "the incident". I have to admit that although I am a diesel man, I love watching this loco run with its heavyweight 3-car passenger consist. They also happen to be the only passenger cars I have that look good running on this layout, with it's 22R curves. They were literally basket cases, found at a train show and nearly given to me by the vendor to get them off his hands. Old wood cars with metal sides. They sat in their boxes for a couple years til I finally decided to give them a go, and now they are some of my favorite cars. Go figure.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - September 20 2013 : 9:44:42 PM
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John & Nelson - I really appreciate the troubleshooting ideas and tips. It is a newer IHC/Mehano - I have not eyeballed the motor but I believe it's a can.
I have thought up my own theory on this thing - and am curious if you may think it's possible. I've been rebuilding some areas of the layout, and the night this all happened I had re-ballasted a short siding. Is it possible that the wet ballast between the rails was allowing intermittent shorting? About the time I talk myself into this theory and pat myself on the back, I remember I tried another loco on the track at the same time (a P2K FA1) and it had nary an issue...plus the Pacific was having similar issues on the upstairs then too.
Never mind....
PS... the Pacific has ran like a trooper since "the incident". I have to admit that although I am a diesel man, I love watching this loco run with its heavyweight 3-car passenger consist. They also happen to be the only passenger cars I have that look good running on this layout, with it's 22R curves. They were literally basket cases, found at a train show and nearly given to me by the vendor to get them off his hands. Old wood cars with metal sides. They sat in their boxes for a couple years til I finally decided to give them a go, and now they are some of my favorite cars. Go figure.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - September 21 2013 : 01:13:50 AM
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John, excess ballast or white glue on the rail heads could absolutely cause a problem, and would also explain why it hesitates in certain areas. It wouldn't cause a short, just a power interruption from glue on the rails, or flanges riding up on clumps of ballast and breaking contact momentarily. IHC steamers have deeper flanges, so make sure the insides of the rails are clear and polish the rail heads.
Hopefully it's just a scenicking hiccup. Their steamers are quite reliable. I prefer steam myself, and you can't beat vintage coaches to go with them. 
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - September 21 2013 : 08:50:52 AM
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| Hmm.. odd. Never had that happen to me, but whenever I tear apart an engine, I always change the wiring.
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Posted - September 21 2013 : 10:35:12 PM
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Good point Nelson! I forgot all about that and when I replied, he never mentioned it happening in the same place over and over again.....
And without a flywheel it would be a jerky run so to speak when you seen it and the first thing to assume is something wrong, inside mechanically!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - September 22 2013 : 5:52:38 PM
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Well, without beating this poor Pacific to death  I probably wasn't clear in my "theory" explanation. The wet ballast was on a siding, not on the active mainline loop where the Pacific was running. I was just wondering if the presence of moisture between two rails - somewhere on the layout - would have been enough to produce a intermittent short circuit on the entire layout.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - September 22 2013 : 5:59:32 PM
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quote:I was just wondering if the presence of moisture between two rails - somewhere on the layout - would have been enough to produce a intermittent short circuit on the entire layout.
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â September 22 2013Â :Â 5:52:38 PM
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Nope, not even close. Water is very high resistance.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - September 23 2013 : 06:01:36 AM
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Yep, Nelson's right, water isn't a factor here... This is why DC is better used around water......For instance, G scale, on an out doors railroad (sorry guys, I can't call THAT a "layout") Water doesn't effect the power supply in the rails.....why it can be run in the down pour rain, not that I would as it can wash the lube out of the loco's if ran enough in it.......
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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