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 Posted - August 09 2013 : 3:45:33 PM
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Question, are F7's, F8's, and RF-16's sharks considered passenger locomotives only? I really thought they were and could never understand why TYCO sold them in sets as freight locomotives. Another question, do steam trains run in A&B units like diesel locomotives? Finally my last dumb question, on my track, as my train is going around is certain places it has power surges, how can I fix this? Because if is slow it down where the surges are then everywhere else it's really slow or it stops. Thanks guys.....
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Posted - August 09 2013 : 3:54:06 PM
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EMD built both passenger and freight versions of the F7s and F9s. Passenger units had different gearing so that they would run faster, and they were equipped with boilers to create steam for the passenger cars (for heating and air conditioning). Also, many railroads demoted their passenger diesels to freight service when they exited the passenger business.
That said, Tyco's F7 has the vents and stack for the boiler, so it can be considered a passenger unit.
I'm not sure if there were passenger and freight versions of the RF-16s but I do know they pulled both freight and passenger.
-Thomas
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Posted - August 09 2013 : 5:10:55 PM
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quote: ...Also, many railroads demoted their passenger diesels to
I'm not sure if there were passenger and freight versions of the RF-16s but I do know they pulled both freight and passenger.
-Thomas
Originally posted by Redwoods - August 09 2013 : 3:54:06 PM
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Demoted passenger diesel locomotives to pull freight was a very common occurance! They also became "fast freight" locomotives.
The RF-16's were Baldwin locomotives... they did have passenger versions. They were 6-axle units... the mid axle on each truck was an idler and helped carry the weight for the steam boiler.
Fairbanks Morse built a 5-axle version, front truck was 2 axle, rear truck was 3-axle, the mid axle was an idler for the steam generator.
The F-Units in train sets... F-7's, and F-9's... the model train manufacturers decided to save a bit on length variations and decided to "add" steam-generator details on it's cab shells. This allowed the locomotives to pull both freight and passenger trains. Mind you, there were no real F7B passenger units.
EMD F-Unit Family: FT, FTB, F2, F2B, F3,F3B, F5 & F5B (CGW), F-7, F7B, FP7, F8 & F8B (Illinoise Central Gulf), F9, F9B, FP9, and the dual-mode FL9's (electric-diesel)...
The "Cab" units were going out of style, like the steam locomotives, because they could not pull a train continuously in reverse, unless they were run back-to-back. Turntables were becoming less and less.
There were no "B-Unit" steam locomotives, steam trains.
As the steam locomotives were going out, steam was the main source of heating the train in colder weather... this is why steam generators started to be built into cab-diesel locomotives.
The alternative was modification of boxcars to run steam generators in them. These cars would have to be added to the train, directly behind the diesel locomotives.
Your track and your trains slowing down and speeding up...
In direct current power, in theory, the further the rails are from the power pack, the slower your train runs. In simple wiring, you may run another set of wires to those sections where the slow-downs occur.
I say this because, the rails may be just as clean all around your set, and that puzzles many people.
Check your wheels that pick up power.
I have found, in my experience, erasure-looking track cleaners will have you cleaning the track repeatedly. I actually use them to polish metal and wood because they have enough abrasive in them to scratch metal in fine manner.
Petrol-based track cleaner has worked best. Even some lip-balms have miracle cleaning properties... they are, coincidentally petro-based products.
Kadee does have a very reliable wheel cleaner for less than $20.
Using a brass brush will not damage the metals on your trains and layout.
what else?
I have 35 years experience in HO model trains. There "may" be some other's on this forum who agree with my input.
John
P.S. There is no "Stupid Question" present.
I don't have a one track mind. It depends on the turn-out.
"I love your catenary!"
Is that a power-trip or just another pick-up line?
Edited by - zebrails on August 09 2013 8:20:06 PM
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Posted - August 09 2013 : 5:46:30 PM
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GG-1
There Were no F8s. The F units GM FT, F2, F3, F7, F9 were often geared for passenger service.
This was true of ALCO FA & FA2s, and many FM cab units.
Here is some information on Baldwin Cab Units. Very brief and not complete.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20130809173723_Baldwin.jpg
You can find more information on Baldwin Diesels here
http://baldwindiesels.railfan.net/
Regards, John *******************************************************
If God had meant for us to fly, he wouldn't have given us the railways. -- Unknown
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Posted - August 09 2013 : 8:19:12 PM
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As far as slowing down away from the power supply, are you using old, loose rail joiners? I'm assuming here you are using 9 inch sectional track, not 3 foot flex-track on a layout. Most problems from loss of power comes from those cheesy connectors, they get loose with age, you shouldn't be able to pull the track apart (easilyl) with your thumb and forefinger ( on the same hand ) trying to separate them. If you can, the joiners are too loose. That's my criteria for determining if they're tight enough, or too loose. Some gentle work with pliars can tighten them up ( off the track ends ) enough to reuse them. Otherwise, buy new ones.
If you have a fairly big loop/oval, you may want to use a couple extra power track sections, and run wire to them directly from the power pack. Use at LEAST 22 gauge wire, most of what comes with old HO sets is smaller than that, and will cause too much current draw. You're better off supplying your own wire, at 22 or 20 gauge, to assure ample current draw through the wiring. Between too-small power wiring, and loose joiners, those are the two biggest be-devilers of consistent train operations on sectional track. That and dirty track.  Let us know what solves your problems ,
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - August 09 2013 : 10:31:58 PM
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The Southern Railway had F7's for freight and FP7 for passenger hauls. The FP's had the steam generator and were slightly longer. But, later on in the 70's they hauled the freight.
The Aberdeen and Rockfish had F3's and as far as I know only hauled freight
The A&R has a GP7 with a steam generator for passenger service but, I think only hauled freight.
RF16's hauling freight:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dh/dh1216ds.jpg
A&R GP7, steam generator is just ahead of the cab roof. Kermit Geary, Jr photo from George Elwood's Fallen Flags website. http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/#d
/tyco/forum/uploaded/NC Shortlines/20130809222614_ar0205kga.jpg
Lastly, as for the power surges. Tightening the rail joiners as previously mentioned will help.
I have soldered a wire across the rail joint.
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
Edited by - NC shortlines on August 09 2013 10:40:09 PM
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Posted - August 10 2013 : 02:04:38 AM
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quote:Question, are F7's, F8's, and RF-16's sharks considered passenger locomotives only? I really thought they were and could never understand why TYCO sold them in sets as freight locomotives. Another question, do steam trains run in A&B units like diesel locomotives? Finally my last dumb question, on my track, as my train is going around is certain places it has power surges, how can I fix this? Because if is slow it down where the surges are then everywhere else it's really slow or it stops. Thanks guys.....
Originally posted by GG-1 Guy - August 09 2013 : 3:45:33 PM
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The "dumb" question is that "one" NEVER asked!
As for your questions....The EMD units, F7's F-8's or any "F" unit, by EMD, is a freight unit, HOWEVER, the only difference from a freight unit and a passenger unit, by EMD was gearing....The E units are the other option, they were mostly ONLY Passenger service as the second "prime mover" was to power steam heat and AC into the train trailing behind the lash up of units.....These were geared higher for faster speeds!
Same goes for the Baldwin units, they were geared higher for passenger service, HOWEVER a lot of this was done in the 3 axle truck units, PB-16's and such.....
To generalize, these units being "car body type units, made them, aerodynamic, looking, hence "passenger unit" for speed.....BUT were originally made as freight units till the railroads said, "Do you have any thing faster speed wise?" That's when the gearing became prominent to passenger use.
NOW as far as your layout and needing juice so to speak at a distance from the power pack, you would do this with a "buss" wire under the layout, of LARGER gauge wire then normal to supply the rails at different intervals of the trackage. Hence, at the further-est distance from the power, is where you have the voltage drop, and then engine either slows way down, or stops. This is where you need this "buss" wire! It will supply the same amount of amps, and voltage no matter the distance from the power pack! Every 3 or 4 feet, of track work needs a "feed" from the buss wire under the layout....This will insure the same voltage throughout the track no matter how big or small....Taking into consideration, ALL of your track work rail jointers are soldered, EXCEPT those, at turnouts, BUT have tightly fitting rail jointers to keep rail straight and carry a bit of electric through it (AMPs)
Hope this helps!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid... 
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - August 10 2013 : 05:04:58 AM
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| I want to thank all of you guys who took time to answer my questions. I was thoroughly impressed the the amount of knowledge you guy have. It is an honor to be apart of this web site with you guys!! THANKS!!!
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Posted - August 10 2013 : 6:15:07 PM
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Phillip,
Your more then welcome as I would assure you the remaining membership would also attest as well.....
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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