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Patt68
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 Posted - April 20 2013 : 3:32:19 PM
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Would a more powerful transformer harm Tyco engines? I have a Tyco master dual transformer but it puts out less voltage than the standard 899 transformer. Does the other Tyco single master transformer put out more power? Should I go with a newer brand and if so, what brand? Will a more powerful transformer give more power to pull more? Thanks for any help.
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 Posted - April 20 2013 : 5:07:54 PM
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Hello,
I used to have a power pack like that Tyco 899, many years ago. I think it was a Tyco, it looked like the pictures I found online. I no longer have it. I remember it was weaker then my other power pack (made by MRC), and the slow speed control was not great. I don't know anything about the Tyco master dual transformer, so I can't comment on it.
Nowadays I have two very nice MRC Tech 2 power packs, and they work great for me. They are strong, with a lot of reserve power, and have a very smooth speed control. I can easily control 3 or 4 average HO scale locomotives, all running together at the same time, without any overheating. The much smaller Tyco 899 transformer will not be able to do that. I remember, because I tried to do that in the past. It would start to overheat, plus each train would go slower, because it was not a power power pack. It could not handle the load, I wanted to give it. Either I had to lower the load (only operate one loco at a time), OR get a more powerful power pack.
Yes, a more powerful transformer will you give more power, to pull more. Each single locomotive will only draw as much energy as it needs to run, and nothing more. If you have a very efficient locomotive, powered with a high quality electric motor, (like a core-less 7 pole motor), it will use very little energy to move. With a more typical locomotive, it will need more energy to get the motor spinning. It has to fight the resistance in the motor and gearing, before it will start to spin. A cheap motor has more resistance to spinning. As long as your transformer has enough power to deal with the load from the train, it will not overheat prematurely. It will not be smooth with a low quality power pack, because cheap power packs have a smaller effective range in their speed control. The dial might only move 90 degrees on a cheap controller, compared to around 270 degrees on a high quality controller. Remember a circle is 360 degrees all the way around. That larger range in degrees, will give you finer control between the zero and 12 volts, that HO trains are designed to operate with. Another nice feature with a higher quality power pack, the the internals inside (such as resistors, capacitors, and the speed controller [rheostat or potentiometer], etc) will be of higher quality to handle more heat before melting down. A higher quality power pack usually has a smoother speed controller, and more reserve power.
A more efficient motor draws less amps and wattage, compared to a lower quality motor. But the motor (any motor) will only draw, what it actually needs to operate, and nothing more. Power packs are rated in vottage (such as 12 volts), amperage (such as 1 amp), and can also be rated in wattage (like a 90 watt Lionel transformer). A very modern and efficient motor might only draw one tenth of an amp, to operate at a certain sped; while an older and less efficient electric motor might need a full amp, to run at the same speed. The power pack will deliver the needed power (such as 1 amps) to that motor -- but only what the locomotive is actually drawing from the power pack.
Let's say for instance, your power pack was designed to deliver 2 full amps (without overheating). If your locomotive needs one amp to run, then you can run two identical locomotives, on that particular power pack. If instead your locomotive only needs half an amp to operate, then you can run 4 identical locomotives together, off that single power pack.
I hope you understand my explanation.
You can also lower the energy needs of a locomotive, by giving it a full tuneup. Cleaning out all the gunk inside such as dried out lubrication, cat hair, carpet fuzz, rust, you get the idea. Once everything is clean inside, and you have inspected all the gears for cracks, etc, and cleaned all the wheels -- then you can put fresh lubrication in the loco. Just a small amount of lubrication goes a long way. That will help to make your locomotive draw less amps, thereby making it more efficient.
Another more complicated and expensive choice, is to re-motor (and/or re-gear) the locomotive.
Naturally as you already know, you operate a DC train with a DC power pack (like the vast majority of N and HO scales), and a AC powered 3-rail Lionel (Lionel O scale) needs an AC transformer to function.
In closing, I happen to like the power packs made by MRC (Model Rectifier Corporation). They usually make a quality product. But there are other good quality power packs, made from other manufacturers also.
Howard
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Posted - April 20 2013 : 5:24:35 PM
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First of all, by "more power" it means amps, not volts. All model train transformers operate DC voltage up to about 14-16 volts. None will hurt your vintage engines because they were all using that amount of voltage even back in the 1950's. It's the amperage it puts out that's important, because a higher amp pack will allow more cars to be run at one time if you are inclined to try that. Or provide more oomph to the engine you have, some motors pull more amps, especially the older ones from the '50s and '60's,. often over 1 amp, modern DC engines often don't pull even that much because of superior design. I prefer the MRC powerpacks because they tend to have superior power output compared to Tyco transformers. I use either a vintage MRC metal cased powerpack, or a more modern Tech II plastic cased transformer. Both work great. But you're safe using any power pack, as the (upper limit)
voltage doesn't change, it's the amount of amperage the internal transformer can generate will determine the power of the powerpack itself. Go with a better unit if you can afford one. They're worth the extra money.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
Edited by - AMC_Gremlin_GT on April 20 2013 5:26:35 PM
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Posted - April 20 2013 : 5:27:38 PM
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Hi, I forgot to mention a few things in my previous post.
I can't comment on those other Tyco power packs, I've never used them. Hopefully someone else can answer your questions about those particular Tyco power packs.
Naturally it's your hobby, and as such, you can use whatever you like. I have no idea what your budget is, or what you like to run on your layout. You can certainly run any and all your HO scale trains, with any DC power pack you find. As long as the power pack is working (not dead), it will move the train. Even the lowest quality and cheapest power pack, can still make a train run. As long as it does not overheat and die. But it will be frustrating if you have problems. And it will be hard to control smoothly. And be quite weak.
That is why I like to use my quality (and powerful) power packs for running my trains. It's less problems for me. I can use the cheaper power packs to operate the accessories, such as switch machines and lights.
You might want to run an experiment. Test all your locomotives with your power pack(s), and see how you like the results. If you are satisfied, you can save your money and keep what you have. If you are not satisfied with the performance, then you might want to get a better power pack for the trains. You can still use the Tyco power pack for accessories.
Regards,
Howard
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Posted - April 20 2013 : 9:57:17 PM
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I use the latest DC transformers and never have any issues with my oldies. If you have an issue it's usually the engine or the connection. Using a more modern controller or transformer, as already stated want do anything.
I buy, repair, and collect
http://scvr.weebly.com/
http://seyboldlocomotiveworks.weebly.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDeputation?feature=watch
Hyde.
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Patt68
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 Posted - April 24 2013 : 12:55:12 AM
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Thanks for the great info guys. Im going to look into the MRC packs. Just want to give my old Tycos a boost and a more smooth operation. Especially the passenger set that draws power to light the coach cars.
Pat
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