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 Posted - November 19 2012 : 9:33:17 PM
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OK, I just bought 2 pairs of new brushes from K4 Supply and they look all carbon! I know most Rivarossi's need a copper and a carbon in order to run. Am I right or can I use 2 carbon brushes?
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - November 19 2012 : 9:59:24 PM
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Yep, the carbon brushes are fine. I think they included one mesh brush to help clean the commutator, but I don't think it did much.
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Posted - November 30 2012 : 4:30:36 PM
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Nelson's right, they don't need both to be carbon brushes, BUT that copper screen was ment to "clean" the commutator during run time, and still conduct the power to the motor to operate properly..
I think it might even make the motor some stronger if 2 carbon brushes are used, but not alot but some......
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid... 
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - November 30 2012 : 4:40:49 PM
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John, early Rivarossi motors had very narrow commutator gaps that were prone to fouling, so maybe that's why the mesh brush was used. Here's a picture of a replacement brush and cleaning kit Lionel sold for their RR locos.
Unfortunately they still fouled, since there's no way that brush can sweep out the gaps. Later motors had wider gaps that didn't load up easily unless there was a lot of excess oil. It's just another one of RR's interesting quirks.
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Posted - November 30 2012 : 10:21:33 PM
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Nelson,
This is true.....however (yes there is a clause) The narrow commutator was prone to gunking up....... then with that some 91 % alcohol on a small diameter Q-Tip would clean it, and on the separate gaps, pulling outward cleaned them out pretty well.
I used to do that when it (or any that I once had) would have about 100 hours run time, or somewhere there abouts anyway.....
Today, NONE of those motors are in my collection so.....I don't have a need to do that sort of maintenance to them! All were replaced with can motors!
BUT, on the older motors, with dual carbon brushes, remove both carbon AND screen, and replace with Graphite brushes, went A LONG ways on the power it provided......(Yes, yes, I know not everyone has a machine shop as I used to machine my own graphite brushes from a guy that I got electric fork truck brushes from that in the fork truck, these brushes were shot.........as they got to small to have enough pressure on the motors commutators, BUT, in my application, I got 50 to 65 brushes for in the trains to be a stronger part of the old motors...
Add them to a old Lionel locomotive and add a set of wings as the locomotive would fly! (litterally) I seen one I done this too, and full throttle from a friend and the loco ended up 3 rooms away and didn't bounce that far! BUT it did bounce when it actually hit the floor 3 rooms away!
Sadly, I don't get why, but it seemed to give the motor more speed and about 1/4th more power in the big Lionel motors......The HO scale stuff the brushes gave about an 1/8th more power......(I didn't have a pull gauge to gauge the power back then), as I do now, and haven't had one to test.....
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - November 30 2012 : 11:57:01 PM
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quote:Sadly, I don't get why, but it seemed to give the motor more speed and about 1/4th more power in the big Lionel motors......The HO scale stuff the brushes gave about an 1/8th more power......
Originally posted by EM-1Â -Â November 30 2012Â :Â 10:21:33 PM
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Graphite has a much lower resistance than regular carbon, so more current can flow.
Glenn
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"
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Posted - December 01 2012 : 01:59:43 AM
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John, so where do you get the graphite material? Or do I have to start pulling pencils apart now?
I did notice that the replacement brushes for RR motors from K4 Pacific seem to have a higher resistance than other carbon brushes, because any motor I put them into -- even a New One Camel Back motor -- runs noticeably slower. Not the best grade carbon brush material, apparently.
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Posted - December 01 2012 : 02:29:19 AM
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Nelson,
I have a friend that works for Hyster. he travels all over to maintenance and repair fork trucks.......He saves all the old motor brushes out of the electric fork lifts for me as they when are shot in the fork lift are still about 3 and a half down to 2 inches long............. thats ALOT of brush materials for me to make into 12 volt motor brushes!
As far as pencils, I'm not sure they would be "pressed" enough to be used as a motor brush, BUT it be worth a try! Hmmm...
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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