|
Jim
Little Six
Status:
offline
| |
 Posted - September 30 2012 : 4:08:27 PM
|
Ok folks, im gonna start putting a metal plate type load together so I am in need of a few things, first is the metal plate type weights found in some gondolas/open hoppers, second a way to get them to different rust levels, some I want relitivly un rusted others I want to have years of rust on them, and I need a way to rust them in hours not years if that makes any sense...
does any one know of a low cost, safe but fast way to rust any type of metal in a matter of minutes or hours instead of years?
|
Country:  USA ~
Posts: 145 ~
Member Since: September 26 2012 ~
Last Visit: December 23 2013
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - September 30 2012 : 6:12:07 PM
|
4 parts white vinegar, 1 part hydrogen peroxide
(3%) and 1/2 part of salt.
OR
20:1-100:1 water:HCl (muriatic) toss a couple of copper pennies (pre 1982) in the solution and let sit for a week before using. Spray or paint on the solution
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 424 ~
Member Since: June 25 2010 ~
Last Visit: July 30 2021
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
Jim
Little Six
Status:
offline
| |
Posted - September 30 2012 : 9:18:02 PM
|
nice, which one of the two is faster? also are both safe to use in plastic containers and/or old train cars like gondolas?
Edited by - Jim on September 30 2012 10:11:09 PM
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 145 ~
Member Since: September 26 2012 ~
Last Visit: December 23 2013
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - October 01 2012 : 05:39:55 AM
|
| Don't breathe in the Muriatic Acid or get on skin - deadly stuff - will take your breath and can kill you
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 2507 ~
Member Since: January 31 2006 ~
Last Visit: October 21 2017
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - October 01 2012 : 10:01:26 AM
|
quote:nice, which one of the two is faster? also are both safe to use in plastic containers and/or old train cars like gondolas?
Originally posted by Jim - September 30 2012 : 9:18:02 PM
|
plastic is inert to all acids and oxidizers. so you're safe
the muriatic that you buy at a store should be treated with respect but it's not deadly unless you care to drink it or take a deep breath over the bottle., the latter will burn the hairs off you nostrils. Stone masons and brick layers use it in large quantities with no problem to etch and clean mortar
Diluted in these ratios it's quite safe
Very important you pour the acid into the water to make the dilute solutions and not the other way around
wear goggles when working with the concentrated stuff
oddly enough concentrated muriatic will disolve rust off steel but diluted it will oxidize it.
I've seen where the fumes from an open bottle can quickly rust anything close by
as far as which is faster can't say.
be sure you clean off any oil and grease first with a solvent or straight acid
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 424 ~
Member Since: June 25 2010 ~
Last Visit: July 30 2021
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
Jim
Little Six
Status:
offline
| |
Posted - October 01 2012 : 2:07:08 PM
|
| I assume muriatic is the name of the product to use? and Ill find this stuff at a place like Home Depot or Lowes?
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 145 ~
Member Since: September 26 2012 ~
Last Visit: December 23 2013
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - October 01 2012 : 4:39:39 PM
|
quote:I assume muriatic is the name of the product to use? and Ill find this stuff at a place like Home Depot or Lowes?
Originally posted by Jim - October 01 2012 : 2:07:08 PM
|
yes but shop around like at hard ware or paint stores as sounds like you don't need much and they usually carry one gallon , a life time supply
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 424 ~
Member Since: June 25 2010 ~
Last Visit: July 30 2021
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
Jim
Little Six
Status:
offline
| |
Posted - October 05 2012 : 12:16:13 AM
|
| Cool, Ill shop around some but do you have any ways that I could do the same with things I may have at home already or every day type items?
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 145 ~
Member Since: September 26 2012 ~
Last Visit: December 23 2013
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - October 05 2012 : 04:45:36 AM
|
The vinegar, hydrogen peroxide and salt mixture is much safer, cheaper and more likely to be stuff you already have. Vinegar can be found in the Ketchup aisle at your grocery store. Hydrogen peroxide can be found in the pharmacy section of your grocery store as well, and salt you're likely to have.
Starting my Tyco and other favorites collection over again after 37 years.
My still in progress list of inventory and wantlist: tyconut.com
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 396 ~
Member Since: November 02 2009 ~
Last Visit: March 14 2021
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - October 05 2012 : 04:59:45 AM
|
Not to be confused with hydrogen chloride.
Hydrochloric acid is a clear, colorless solution of hydrogen chloride (HCl) in water. It is a highly corrosive, strong mineral acid with many industrial uses. Hydrochloric acid is found naturally in gastric acid.
Historically called muriatic acid, and spirits of salt, hydrochloric acid was produced from vitriol (sulfuric acid) and common salt.
With major production starting in the Industrial Revolution, hydrochloric acid is used in the chemical industry as a chemical reagent in the large-scale production of vinyl chloride for PVC plastic, and MDI/TDI for polyurethane. It has numerous smaller-scale applications, including household cleaning, production of gelatin and other food additives, descaling, and leather processing. About 20 million tonnes of hydrochloric acid are produced annually.
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 2911 ~
Member Since: March 26 2012 ~
Last Visit: January 14 2014
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
Jim
Little Six
Status:
offline
| |
Posted - October 13 2012 : 7:17:20 PM
|
| Ok, I also found another way to rust the prices, seems to take 6 to 12 hours but hey it seems to work :)
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 145 ~
Member Since: September 26 2012 ~
Last Visit: December 23 2013
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - October 13 2012 : 8:46:09 PM
|
quote:Ok, I also found another way to rust the prices, seems to take 6 to 12 hours but hey it seems to work :)
Originally posted by Jim - October 13 2012 : 7:17:20 PM
|
mind telling us what it was
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 424 ~
Member Since: June 25 2010 ~
Last Visit: July 30 2021
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
Jim
Little Six
Status:
offline
| |
Posted - October 14 2012 : 10:14:41 AM
|
its acid essentially....that's all I am at liberty to say, I say it this way as I feel the wording needed to describe how/what I used may be borderline aginst the rules as far as explicit content! Least I think it could be, but if you really want to know PM me and I shale tell you there!
Edited by - Jim on October 16 2012 10:43:50 PM
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 145 ~
Member Since: September 26 2012 ~
Last Visit: December 23 2013
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
Jim
Little Six
Status:
offline
| |
Posted - October 17 2012 : 1:15:22 PM
|
Here is the update, here is the rusted pieces of metal I used, was originally a weight from the wreaked out hopper that I melted (in another thread) along with the weighted pieces from another tyco engine I have (Midnight Special) that has no wheels that had the rear bogey salvaged to fix a working tyco unit, so enjoy.
Which gondola car do you all think would be better to use for this load? the red one or green one? the green one is shorter but taller, and the red is longer but shorter. both will fit the load properly.
Edited by - Jim on October 17 2012 1:18:56 PM
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 145 ~
Member Since: September 26 2012 ~
Last Visit: December 23 2013
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
Jim
Little Six
Status:
offline
| |
Posted - October 25 2012 : 10:05:38 PM
|
| Any one?
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 145 ~
Member Since: September 26 2012 ~
Last Visit: December 23 2013
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - October 26 2012 : 01:17:59 AM
|
Which of your gons has the higher weight rating? Just recently I saw a 1:1 scale gondola hauling coil steel, 1 coil directly over each truck. I'm pretty sure plate steel of the size you are modeling would weigh more than those 2 coils.
Glenn
Glenn
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 1564 ~
Member Since: December 13 2008 ~
Last Visit: May 05 2025
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - October 26 2012 : 10:49:09 AM
|
used to work for a can company where we purchased coils of tin plate and sheared them into sheets.
the coils weighed 36,000 lbs and required A LOT of respect when handling
fred in Mi
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 424 ~
Member Since: June 25 2010 ~
Last Visit: July 30 2021
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
Jim
Little Six
Status:
offline
| |
Posted - October 26 2012 : 9:51:07 PM
|
I will have to look, but if I understand your question correctly your basicially saying I should use which ever is higher in weight rating? Which is the red one in this case, also based on the load pictured, what would the represented scale weight be? The hopper is "rated" for the following
CAPY:140,000
LDLMT:154,000
LTWT: 55,600
Thanks for the help!
Edited by - Jim on October 26 2012 11:04:43 PM
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 145 ~
Member Since: September 26 2012 ~
Last Visit: December 23 2013
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - October 27 2012 : 12:50:50 AM
|
Here is a link to a steel weights calculator:
http://www.machined-castings.com/calc.html
It gives you a choice of metals to get weights for, and lets you enter dimensions. Figure out the scale dimensions of your weights and what metal you want them to represent, and plug it all into this webpage and it will give you the "weight" of your load. Hope this helps.
Glenn
Glenn
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 1564 ~
Member Since: December 13 2008 ~
Last Visit: May 05 2025
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - October 27 2012 : 07:03:30 AM
|
Here is one specifically for calculating the weight of carbon steel plate:
http://www.portlandbolt.com/tools/plate-weight-calculator/
You know, perhaps I am missing the whole point. This is model railroading after all, and any gon would handle those weights. It's more a question of what's important to you, prototypical accuracy or what looks good to you. If you care more about what looks good, compare how the weights look in each car and go with what you like better.
Glenn
Glenn
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"
Edited by - gmoney on October 27 2012 07:28:58 AM
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 1564 ~
Member Since: December 13 2008 ~
Last Visit: May 05 2025
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
Jim
Little Six
Status:
offline
| |
Posted - October 27 2012 : 5:17:47 PM
|
| The weights are supposed to represent steel panels of some sort...rusted ones in various states of dis repair, from what, not sure yet...
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 145 ~
Member Since: September 26 2012 ~
Last Visit: December 23 2013
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - October 28 2012 : 06:46:50 AM
|
Solid steel plate or some sort of fabricated construction? And are you going for prototypical accuracy or a good appearance?
Glenn
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 1564 ~
Member Since: December 13 2008 ~
Last Visit: May 05 2025
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
Jim
Little Six
Status:
offline
| |
Posted - October 28 2012 : 2:41:03 PM
|
| accuracy preferred but would like it to look good too, but more realism is what im going for...
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 145 ~
Member Since: September 26 2012 ~
Last Visit: December 23 2013
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
Jim
Little Six
Status:
offline
| |
Posted - November 06 2012 : 7:12:01 PM
|
| Any one? I'm thinking of using the red car since that has a higher capacity weight written on it...but still would not mind people's in put :)
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 145 ~
Member Since: September 26 2012 ~
Last Visit: December 23 2013
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 07 2012 : 12:25:49 AM
|
Based on estimates of the sizes of your weights, if they represent solid steel plates you are seriously pushing, if not exceeding, the load limit of your higher rated gon! If you're interested, I'd be glad to calculate an exact weight of the load. Just provide me the length, width, and thickness of the weights in actual inches.
Glenn
Glenn
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 1564 ~
Member Since: December 13 2008 ~
Last Visit: May 05 2025
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 07 2012 : 04:58:02 AM
|
Jim- here's what I would do:
- take some balsa wood strips that scale to an HO cross section and run two down the interior of each gondola, separated from each other by 2-3 scale feet.
- in the green car, locate the two rusted weights equidistant from @ other, spaced so that they are visually balanced, lying flat on the wood.
- do the same in the other car with 3 of the dark weights, then add some cross block pieces of balsa to "keep them from shifting". Like a "ladder" arrangement with only a few cross rungs.
- remove the weights and perhaps run a light weathering of diluted India ink on the wood pieces, but only one time, so as not to "age" the wood. Or, use some other weathering methods as you choose.
- don't glue the wood in the cars, but glue only the wood and the weights with CA, so you can remove the load as one piece. This way you can make alternate different loads without ruining the interior of the cars.
-on the dark weights, use a white colored pencil or a very small piece of chalk to write some manufacturing marks on them, perhaps a number sequence or an abbreviation- research this with google images- again, your choice.
- take pictures and show us what you did!
Siouxlake/ Ron
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 510 ~
Member Since: September 21 2011 ~
Last Visit: December 21 2014
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
Home
Forums
Events Calendar
Forum Admins & Mods
Register
