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 Posted - September 12 2012 : 4:21:45 PM
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Has anybody here ever use rare earth magnets to revive a motor? I gotta knock off Chinese Pittman in my life like diesel I wanna revive it.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - September 12 2012 : 5:55:49 PM
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Yep. I've done it a number of times, and done right it makes open frame motors run like cans. Here's a shot of a PM-1 with two stacks of rectangular neodymiums.
There are a number of sellers on eBay with good prices on batches of them. You can also find some in most hardware stores, but they're round instead of rectangular.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - September 12 2012 : 6:46:37 PM
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Wait so how would someone do this on say a mantua big six or any mantua steamer?
I buy, repair, and collect
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Hyde.
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Posted - September 12 2012 : 7:14:43 PM
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OK
I see 2 stacks....Is 1 stack pos and 1 Neg or are all the same polarity?
caboose 1
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Posted - September 12 2012 : 7:33:24 PM
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If drilled, does it lose any of its magnetivity? I thought about JB Welding the 'stack! Where ya get yours from NKP759?
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - September 12 2012 : 9:21:11 PM
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Don't drill them out, because they're just powdery inside with a strong chrome coating. Even if the magnet didn't break, you'd never get the powder of your drill bit.
The magnets pictured actually came from the bottom of old Sonicare heads. Unfortunately their revised style that I bought as a replacement doesn't use them externally, so there goes that source. Micro-mark sells them in English sizes for magnet replacements, but they're pretty pricey.
http://www.micromark.com/super-magnets-20-pieces,9966.html
I found equivalents on eBay that are much cheaper.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-STRONG-Neodymium-Magnets-1-2-x-1-4-x-1-8-Rare-Earth-/360485841792
Caboose, the stacks are the same polarity. The individual magnets are stacked N-S-N-S etc. of course, but the stacks themselves have to be placed in the motor with the same polarity. For e.g., if the top of the motor is N and the bottom is S, then both stacks have to be installed north side up. They will repel each other, but will still stick to the steel poles. It helps to get a compass to determine the orientation of the original magnet to avoid getting them in backwards.
A friend of mine over on the MR forum is an operator of all brass, and he replaced all of his magnets with ones he got from Micro Mark. Their illustration only shows one stack, so when he saw my photo he asked if doubling them up improved the performance, and I said yes and recommended he give it a try. He couldn't believe the difference, and said he now gets creeping speeds out of his Yellowstones and Cab Forward he didn't think were possible.
SCVRR, you would do it the same way I described here. And Justin, no need for JB Weld. They stay in place, believe me.
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on September 12 2012 10:15:54 PM
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Posted - September 12 2012 : 9:45:56 PM
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Yes, but how exactly do you remove the old bearing and back end of the motor housing?
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Hyde.
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Posted - September 12 2012 : 9:58:57 PM
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No need to do that, just pull out the old magnet. Just don't do it before you have them, because the motor will be useless.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - September 12 2012 : 10:07:52 PM
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I getcha.
I buy, repair, and collect
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http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDeputation?feature=watch
Hyde.
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Posted - September 12 2012 : 10:13:46 PM
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Hi Guys,
I am about to place an order with a Chinese factory for approx 1000 of these magnets.
I purchased a sample lot of approx 50 of them a while back and ended up reviving a dozen or so motors and it was quite easy to do. I also replaced one if not both bearings while I was at it. I sold every one on eBay for $10 - $18, depending on the bids. Not bad for a previously dead motor.
It is not hard and it really does not matter how you place the magnets. To remove the bearings, I placed a small hand socket in my drill press and I simply pressed them out an pressed new ones in. To replace the front one, I had to remove the gear which usually slips right off and back on again.
The whole process should not take more than 10 minutes. As long as the wire coil is not burnt, it will work like a charm and run much cooler too.
Sean
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - September 12 2012 : 10:21:54 PM
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I saw some of your auctions, Sean. So I guess 1000 means you're going in the biz, huh? 
And yes, you can replace the bearings while you're at it if they're worn. You can even leave out the rivet if you need more room for the magnets and glue the field pieces to the rear bearing mount.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - September 12 2012 : 11:59:51 PM
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I've used neodymium magnets to power up quite a few motors now, and they work great! I get most of mine from K & J Magnetics, since they have such a large selection. They make a 1/2" cube with a hole through the center, and it works great on Mantua/Tyco PM-1 motors. Just remember though, these magnets are as fragile as they are powerful! For example:
That magnet snapped against another one and shattered. I've since replaced it. I drilled out the rivet to fit it in there, but the magnet it so strong that it holds the motor together from its own force! I only put a little super glue on the edges to keep it aligned.
Here's an old Athearn Hi-F motor:
I could've used bigger magnets if I filed the housing a little, but even that was a major improvement in power!
The regular 1/2" cube is a perfect fit for MU-1 and MU-2 trucks:
The only problem is the truck gets stuck at an angle with the old steel mounting plates, but those can be swapped with the later plastic ones to fix that problem.
This also works well in older Rivarossi motors:
That ball-bearing motor now has near as much torque as the big can from their Big Boy, Challenger, and FEF-3.
And My Akane 2-8-0's magnet was 95% dead, so it got a shiny new cube.
Can motors still have an edge in performance, but these magnet upgrades really work wonders! One thing to remember though is that you should never file or modifiy the magnets in any way. That plating is there to protect them from rust, and I hear the magnetic metal itself rusts VERY easily. Also make sure they don't get above 175 degrees F or so, or they begin to lose their magnetism.
Darth Santa Fe, doing weird and challenging projects for the fun of it!
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