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 Posted - January 30 2012 : 7:39:40 PM
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I've been running an RI 430 Alco and I'm impressed with how well it starts under power and runs almost like an MU2. I'm only pulling about 6-7 cars with it. Is possible that this version of the PT has better windings than some of the other PTs? Could you determine the type of windings or quality by testing it with a volt meter or something like that. I really don't want to take it apart with it running this well.
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Posted - January 30 2012 : 8:17:37 PM
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I dunno Alco Fan. Just depends on the care they were given in the past. I have few PT diesels/steamers that run very quietly for them being a PT! I lubed my C430 up so good that it barely made any noise!
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - January 30 2012 : 9:57:18 PM
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One of the best things to do to a PT is to take the axles out and chamfer the side slot openings so there are no sharp ridges, I've found that this area will cause the axle to bind sometimes, and by relieving the sharp edge some, the axle will then ride smoothly thru the slot, and not bind up at the very bottom where the radius can be off and any sharp edge will cause the axle to ride on that instead of the whole surface. The PT motor itself is not super-hard metal, so you can literally carve it out with an X-acto knife or something, anything to remove that sharp edge 99% of them have. As was said, some run better than others, but you can improve the bad ones sometimes with some simple fixes. A dab of grease or oil on those groove openings will then give the axle a super-slick surface to turn in.
Jerry
PT king
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - January 31 2012 : 3:38:03 PM
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My brother bought an MDT switcher with a PT for $1.00. It runs smoothly, starts up on low throttle settings and doesn't stumble or stall.
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
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Posted - February 02 2012 : 06:05:29 AM
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Lots of power torques are weak runners.
This one runs like an MU2 and is a PT.
Is there a way to see if the windings are beefed-up without tearing it down?
Alco Fan
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Posted - February 02 2012 : 9:30:02 PM
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AF, in my experience weak Powertorques are the result of oil-fouled brushes robbing the motor of torque (not to mention hair or other fibers wrapped around the gear shafts, dried greae, etc.). It causes extra friction, attracts dirt, etc., and these motors are more prone to it because they are low torque to begin with, while having much more commutator surface area than a conventional design. It can turn the commutator into a disk brake. I used to see the same thing in over-oiled Aurora slot cars.
I think that brush arcing burning through the copper foil on the commutator is the actual culprit behind PT burnouts, not burnt windings, so I don't think heavier windings would do anything except increase the current draw. Bachmann pancake motors seemed torque-ier and less prone to bogging down, probably due to stronger magnets and more armature laminations.
quote:My brother bought an MDT switcher with a PT for $1.00. It runs smoothly, starts up on low throttle settings and doesn't stumble or stall.
Originally posted by NC shortlines - January 31 2012 : 3:38:03 PM
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A switcher or a trolley is really the ideal use of a PT drive, since neither can overtax the gearing or motor by pulling too heavy a load.
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on February 02 2012 11:30:08 PM
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Posted - February 04 2012 : 9:03:11 PM
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NickelPlate 759
I think your right.
Do you think that all NOS PTs would run this good, like an MU2?
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Posted - February 04 2012 : 11:59:32 PM
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AF, I think they run well to start, but they can develop problems like worn pinions and dry bearings if run a lot. That's what my original 2-8-0 did years ago after about a year of use, until I couldn't keep the bearings from squealing. Of course, we didn't have teflon oils back then, either. The motor never did burn out.
They're basically fussy and are more work than an MU-2, more than the average owner (usually a kid) knew how to do.
Edit: Just had another thought... a PT burnout could be as simple as cooked brush springs.
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on February 05 2012 12:06:11 AM
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Posted - February 05 2012 : 12:10:39 AM
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Nelson:
When you say "cooked" you mean metal fatigue, can't push the brushes into contact properly?
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
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Posted - February 05 2012 : 12:59:41 AM
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I mean cooked, as in overheated by excessive current draw from the motor being stalled by old lube, fibers in the gearing, etc. When that happens, they become weak and collapse.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - February 05 2012 : 01:11:32 AM
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I have seen all the pooh about the mighty PT motors and I agree with Nelson they are only as good as the person who runs them. I mean if you look after them they run great. I will admit they lack a little torque but if they are serviced right they run great. I have several 2-8-0 and 0-8-0 and they run quiet and will pull a few units. You have to remember when they were first built DAH.The newer units run a lot better so does a new truck. I have a 1995 S10 SS that runs great because I look after it. I would put it up against a new one any day.
Ken
FIDDLEHEAD RAILWAY CO.
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Posted - February 18 2012 : 10:14:37 AM
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Since the motor, truck blocks have changed design over the years have the armatures changed any?
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Posted - February 18 2012 : 11:49:34 AM
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quote:Since the motor, truck blocks have changed design over the years have the armatures changed any?
Originally posted by Alco Fan - February 18 2012 : 10:14:37 AM
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I have about 50+ PT units still even after selling some, and truthfully, looking across all the variations from non-vented to vented, tender units to diesel, the armatures really have not changed at all much. Some have a longer shaft on the pinion gear side, sticks out another 1/8th inch, not sure why that was done. But as far as thicker magnets or more windings, no, I can't see any changes there. I DID notice some had a slightly smaller armature shaft, whereas some pinion gears won't interchange to one of these as it's definitely smaller diameter enough to make the other gear spin freely. Other than that, that is the only major difference I recall seeing on just one or two of them. Well, some of them have 3 different colors of armature wire, and others just a single color for all 3, but that's just manufacturing variations, I'm sure.
One thing I was thinking of is, what would happen if you stacked another set of magnets on top of the first, then welded/added a second armature, and soldered the wires at each point? In essence creating a double motor. the brush plate would then need spacers to move it out, but would make for an interesting power enhancement exercise. You wouldn't need two sets of brushes, as the wires soldered at each armature point would transfer the power to the inner armature without brushes. I don't have the skills to try that now, but have thought about it some. Have looked for bigger armatures in slot cars to try, but they don't seem to make them double thick, and the shaft sizes are different than the Tyco Power Torques anyway.
But, bottom line, there's no real change in armature design across the years and main motor casting, none that make any real difference in power production, anyway.
Jerry Casper
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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