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 Posted - June 07 2017 : 6:49:22 PM
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I recently picked up an F-unit chassis for next to nothing. The good side is, the loco works nicely by itself, crawling at low speed, and probably doing a scale 120MPH at top speed. The bad side is, it could not pull itself out of a wet paper bag, losing a lot of power with only half a dozen freight cars behind it, while making itself hot in the process and/or tripping the internal breaker inside the DC controller when that also gets hot (which is rated at a paltry 360mA but works perfectly well with every other loco, even with 2 or 3 running together). I'm not used to seeing an Athearn being creamed by PowerTorque and Bachmann pancake motors which only drive a single truck!
The first thing that came to mind was that the original magnets have gone weak in their 50 or so years of running, and I was wondering if anyone has ever used rare earth/neodymium magnets in a vintage motor such as this. I believe this one predates the gold motors. It would be nice to keep the original motor going, as it seems to have plenty of life left in it.
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Posted - June 08 2017 : 01:10:16 AM
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Check the axle gears by holding the flywheel and turning each wheel to see if they turn. If any turn you have cracked gears. This will keep the loco from pulling very well. I am unaware of any magnets that will fit. A replacement motor or an after market can motor is the common solution. These older motors usually draw pretty high current
Regards, John
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Posted - June 08 2017 : 06:06:26 AM
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Thanks for the reply - the gears are all good however, no binding or anything. I also have a spare set of gears from a Baldwin S-12 which was converted to a dummy (it had no motor when I bought it), which is now a track cleaner.
The only loco I have with cracked gears is a 1980s Bachmann Santa Fe F7, and no-one stocks gears for these (I need both axle gears). I bought the F7 on eBay as "dead" for parts (specifically, the gears) to repair an F9, but I ended up getting the F7 working as well, so I'm back to square one of finding gears again!
You're right about the ability to swap magnets in these old Athearn motors though, the magnet itself doubles as the motor housing - I would have had to fabricate an entirely new housing if I did try to replace the magnet with rare earth magnets. It looks like a can motor conversion might be the only way if I want to pull a proper train with this one. With six passenger cars behind it, the loco runs at about half speed at 12V compared to running alone.
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Posted - June 12 2017 : 10:20:58 AM
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| You may have the windings going bad. One of the wires may have a partial breat in it. This whould cause excessive arching, heat and loss of power. Basically the fix is a motor swap. That said finding a parts BB at a show or EBay is not to difficult.
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Posted - June 12 2017 : 11:51:23 AM
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It is my understanding, when a motor gets hot, it is because of a weak magnet. I have never myself used the Neodymium magnets on this type of motor, but I do recall seeing someone machine out a slot or two in the original magnet to fit new Neodymium magnets and revitalize the original magnet. Otherwise it's addition gets kind of tricky in this application. A purchase of a $5-$10 dual axle can motor might be another option though.
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - June 17 2017 : 3:47:35 PM
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| Well that was an almighty fail for the weekend. I reassembled the motor last night, and when putting the top brush clip back on I didn't put it on straight enough, the clip came apart and the top brush spring went flying into the next suburb! A day later and I still can't find the spring - I think it really is time to put a can motor in this one!
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Posted - June 18 2017 : 2:07:20 PM
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| Remarkable. Like to see the next phase.
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Posted - June 26 2017 : 5:17:04 PM
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| If it counts as a phase, I have a well-used and damaged F3 shell which fits, but it needs a new pilot and other touch-ups. I would really like to get this one up and running, the older and more worn out they look the better!
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Posted - September 15 2017 : 02:28:57 AM
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I still haven't sourced a can motor yet. For now I have turned the loco into a dummy. I managed to find the spring and the motor is working once again but I have insulated it so it won't use power while being dragged.
As I don't have the original draft gear boxes which snap over the original coupler mount, I have filed down the original mounts, drilled out the original hole for the box to fit and used some spare Bachmann truck screws to hold a Kadee draft gear box in its place, and it is now at the correct height unlike the photo at the top of the page.
I have not given up on this loco yet, I just haven't had much spare time to do anything lately.
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Posted - October 14 2024 : 02:01:03 AM
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It's been seven long years in the making!
Today I happened to find a smashed HP DeskJet 2130 printer/scanner on the side of the road with its innards conveniently sticking out, and was able to salvage two can motors from it. By pure luck the motors were the same voltage and RPM as the original Athearn motor, and the spindle on one of them (not intended) was just long enough on the rear to attach a shaft to both ends using the original Athearn worm gear and an ink reservoir from an empty Bic pen as a spindle adapter to get the loco running again.
The thing vibrates the track just like the old mech did (the flywheels are not perfectly balanced), but unlike the old motor the days of this loco slowing to a crawl after two minutes and/or tripping the circuit breaker inside the controller are finally gone.
I still need to test it on a layout with a decent-sized train though, I don't have anything aside from a test track right now as everything is in boxes.
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Posted - November 16 2024 : 6:49:04 PM
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I realize I am rather late to the party but I have installed dozens of these motors in Athearn blue box locos:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/263377511162
Smooth, quiet, low current draw, easy to install
I just place a blob of silicone sealer on top of the Athearn motor mounts and push the motor into the blob and squarely on to the motor mounts.
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Posted - November 17 2024 : 01:28:39 AM
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I used a similar solution, a cheap Ebay motor and a 3D printed mount. The motor clips in to the mount, and the mount snugs in to the frame without any glue. If the motor ever burns up I can pop another motor on in about 30 seconds.
Edited by - DaCheez on November 17 2024 01:29:55 AM
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Posted - November 17 2024 : 08:23:54 AM
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| Where did you get the prints? Do you do them yourself? I certainly could use some of those!
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Posted - November 17 2024 : 11:44:06 AM
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| Brilliant!
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 Posted - November 17 2024 : 8:37:32 PM
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Great idea Eric. Thank you for sharing this with us.
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Posted - November 17 2024 : 10:45:31 PM
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quote:Where did you get the prints? Do you do them yourself? I certainly could use some of those!
Originally posted by Hypoponera - November 17 2024 : 08:23:54 AM
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I modeled them myself several years back after buying some cheap motors. I'm happy to print more and ship them to you (or send the files if you have a printer). I'd have to figure out which motors are the correct size.
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Posted - November 19 2024 : 07:39:02 AM
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While I'm happy with the conversion (especially because the motors were free!), I still wish I could have just made something to replace just the old magnet with some rare earth magnets so I could reuse the old 5-pole rotor; the new motor is only a 3-pole but it still does the job with ease. I think I might just eBay the old motor for parts, maybe someone in Australia might find it useful (although being an early-type gray motor it isn't up to gold motor standards).
It is still the slowest loco in my fleet, but it can still quite happily drag twelve 75' passenger cars at a scale 50 mph all by itself. None of my 80s/90s Bachmann/Life-Like/Lima train set locos have a hope even with traction tires; they always need a second loco to stop slipping.
Only my repowered and equally-slow Tyco Shark is close (the original PT motor and chassis was replaced with an all wheel drive Frateschi F3 chassis), but it isn't anywhere near as powerful and slows right down to about 30 scale mph with that many cars - I might actually swap out its can motor for the other printer motor so I can have two plodding beasts with enough power to pull the house down. Coincidentally, the F3's shell is now on the Athearn chassis.
Edit: Unfortunately the Frateschi chassis is designed for a regular can motor, it has mounting posts cast into the metal frame, and the printer motor is slightly longer and wider. The original Frateschi can motor is also about 1/8" longer than the smaller (third) printer motor so I can't use that either (it's probably weaker anyway).
BTW, there was actually a third can motor in that broken printer (but flat-sided, not cylindrical), I grabbed it later the same night but didn't update my old post.
Edited by - Heihachi_73 on November 19 2024 08:27:14 AM
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Posted - November 20 2024 : 05:06:28 AM
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For those looking for better quality motors to replace the old motors, NWSL has precision can motors with flywheels for around $50 each.
https://nwsl.com/collections/repower-kits
Bachmann also sells decent can motors for about half the price. These are the motors from the upgraded drives that replaces the pancake motored traction tired stuff, and are the same motors used in the newer train set locomotives. Bachmann also sells a motor mounting cradle for these for a few dollars.
https://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=68_790_192
I have no experience with the NWSL motor conversions, but I can verify that the Bachmann F units are tanks. They pull respectably well, and if you know what to look for you can often find an entire locomotive on Ebay for about the cost of a new locomotive. (hint: the ones you are looking for usually come in a blue box, and have body mounted knuckle couplers.)
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