Reply author: catfordken
Replied on: December 17 2013 11:42:22 AM
Message:

"The Alco RSD 1 were built from 1942, some delivered to the US Army, 70 were shipped to the Soviet Railways and further diesel developments

RS3m

Reply author: JRG1951
Replied on: January 07 2014 4:06:41 PM
Message:

Well it is not an ALCO RS but it is an ALCO, and it is an odd ball. The original DL109s had Plywood sides.

Rebuilt Milwaukee Road #14, "Old Maude," A modified ALCO DL109
Look on page 3 for the story of Old Maude

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CFMQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmilwaukeeroadarchives.com%2FMilwaukeeRoadMagazine%2F1953August.pdf&ei=IWLMUsTUK5HfkQelpoCICw&usg=AFQjCNGWeMjyrBorNvkwQGoAgY1O05tJbg&sig2=nYlXGShbGvj25S8mqqc-4g&bvm=bv.58187178,d.eW0

Regards, John ****

There is no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: Defeat it or be defeated by it. <> Tony Blair

Reply author: scsshaggy
Replied on: January 07 2014 7:01:11 PM
Message:

quote:

Rebuilt Milwaukee Road #14, "Old Maude," A modified ALCO DL109 Originally posted by JRG1951 - January 07 2014 :  4:06:41 PM

Reply author: lvrr325
Replied on: January 08 2014 12:22:23 AM
Message:

I find some references that FCP 521 and NdeM 7294 are different units, and some that they're the same, but long hood end photos show one has a Canadian RS-18 type hood and the other an RS-11 type notched hood. The NdeM unit did start out with the same sort of rounded nose made out of EMD F-unit parts, but it appears later it was CF-7-ized.

Reply author: JRG1951
Replied on: January 09 2014 11:39:42 AM
Message:

Don,
I have a theory. I think that the DL-109 nose styling was influenced by the design of Boeing's revolutionary bomber aircraft of the day. The XB-17 was the latest greatest coolest aircraft of it's day. Much like the F-22 Raptor today. Just a theory.



Regards, John **********

Fighter pukes make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! <> Lt. Jake Grafton - Flight of the Intruder

Reply author: scsshaggy
Replied on: January 09 2014 1:28:12 PM
Message:

I wouldn't have thought of it, but there is a resemblance.

Reply author: JRG1951
Replied on: February 03 2014 4:56:32 PM
Message:

The big one that did not make the cut. Only 3 were built.

/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20140203165200_AlcoC855.jpg

http://www.worldrailfans.info/Articles/US/DoubleDiesels.shtml

http://www.american-rails.com/alco-c855.html

Regards, John **************************

Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries. <> Douglas Case

Reply author: JNXT 7707
Replied on: February 03 2014 5:11:39 PM
Message:

OK I admit I'm being lazy and not looking this up - but is the Alco 855 essentially two Alco 430 diesels put together?

Reply author: JRG1951
Replied on: February 03 2014 6:45:31 PM
Message:

Jerry,
It was more like 2 C425s. It had 2 16cyl 251Cs. The C430 had 16cyl 251D engines. The model was in competition with the U50C and the DD35. The GE U50 = 2 U25Bs with 2 16cyl FDL engines. The EMD DD35 = 2 GP35s with 2 16cyl 567D3As.

In the late 60s GE produces a U50 with 4 axle trucks and 2 12cyl FDL engines. EMD built an improved engine that was a DD40AX with 2 16cyl 6453A engines. The Athearn DD40 model never existed as a real engine. The UP EMD engines were built with a wide nose.

Regards, John **********

24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I think not. <> H. L. Mencken

Reply author: JNXT 7707
Replied on: February 04 2014 06:44:18 AM
Message:

quote:

Jerry, It was more like 2 C425s. It had 2 16cyl 251Cs. The C430 had 16cyl 251D engines. The model was in competition with the U50C and the DD35. The GE U50 = 2 U25Bs with 2 16cyl FDL engines. The EMD DD35 = 2 GP35s with 2 16cyl 567D3As. In the late 60s GE produces a U50 with 4 axle trucks and 2 12cyl FDL engines. EMD built an improved engine that was a DD40AX with 2 16cyl 6453A engines. The Athearn DD40 model never existed as a real engine. The UP EMD engines were built with a wide nose. Originally posted by JRG1951 - February 03 2014 :  6:45:31 PM

Reply author: JRG1951
Replied on: February 04 2014 11:16:36 AM
Message:

Jerry,
I have never tried a kit bash that extensive. I did look at doing what you are talking about for early UP gas turbine using a commercial cast resin body. This was before the Athearn turbine units were available. The front and rear trucks are connected with a floating booster on the real 855. The first and fourth truck could be mounted like leading and trailing trucks on a steam engine. The pilot on the 855 is floating so coupler swing would not be a problem. you would need to mount a pilot to the first truck.

The body would need to be scratch built with perhaps parts from scrap ALCO engines. A more freelanced engine could be built using 2 C4XX bodies. I think it would be a difficult but interesting project

Regards, John *********

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. <> Sir Winston Churchill

Reply author: JNXT 7707
Replied on: February 04 2014 3:43:22 PM
Message:

John - I took a closer look at the 855 today with this kitbash in mind and discovered that this loco is far more unique than I assumed. To do a serious representation would involve a lot of fabricating. However...not impossible.
Looking at the truck arrangement though....well I wish we lived in a world where Athearn Gas Turbines or U50s were piled up in the sale box at the next train show! Would make things simpler for sure. Your description of a possible truck arrangement sounds like a good alternative though.
Playing around on Trainiax today, I used a Alco C425 as a donor. The distance between the trucks on a 425 and the distance between the second and third trucks on a 855 aren't too far apart - the 425 has more space, not sure what it translates to in scale feet - maybe 4-5 ft? Even using the 425 wheelbase as the standard to start with, the resulting Frankenstein doesn't end up any longer than a DD40AX.
I know this is going to continue to simmer in my head. I may look at it as a further 'what-if' project, similar (but far more complex) to the DD40B I made. Never existed, but could have if the powers that be had wanted it. Maybe call it an Alco 860? But unlike the DD40B, I want this one to be powered.

Reply author: JRG1951
Replied on: February 04 2014 6:17:08 PM
Message:

Jerry,
The truck arrangement was yours, we just had matching Ideas. I think I would start with a Athearn Blue box U Boat with four axle trucks. It would be easier to modify and get parts for. If the wheel base is to long then use a GP7 or F7 Frame. That is the beauty of the Athearn drive train, the four axle trucks will take the AAR type B road truck side frames. If not Athearn then Modern Bachmann.

You could freelance and use two 4 axle C425 or C430 bodies and do like GE and EMD did and build an improved Century 855, like you said and 860. A century 860 with 6000 HP.

What is Trainiax?

Regards, John *************************

Let me tell you something that we Israelis have against Moses. He took us 40 years through the desert in order to bring us to the one spot in the Middle East that has no oil! <> Golda Meir

Reply author: JNXT 7707
Replied on: February 04 2014 6:27:43 PM
Message:

Yep I was wondering about maybe looking toward an Athearn F7 frame to shorten things up, with the U-boat trucks in the mix too.

Trainiax is a pretty cool site, has drawings of locomotives you can use to explore paint schemes or crazy kitbashes such as this ....or just have fun looking

http://trainiax.net/

Going to start a thread on it when I get enough 'parts' to get an idea of what is going together, don't want to get this thread off track.

Reply author: JRG1951
Replied on: February 10 2014 10:48:49 PM
Message:

Missouri Pacific EMD ALCOS GP12 & GP16
http://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/loco_1gen_rs.html

/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20140210224505_gp12.gif

/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20140210224244_gp16.gif

Regards John *************

Keep your faith in God, but keep your powder dry. <> Oliver Cromwell

Reply author: JNXT 7707
Replied on: February 12 2014 6:11:47 PM
Message:

Not a RS but I stumbled across this beast researching the 855. I think it also had a German-made hydraulic transmission....and only 3 of them made.

Reply author: JRG1951
Replied on: February 13 2014 3:41:09 PM
Message:

Jerry,
How is the weather?

I knew about the Krauss-Maffei diesel Hydraulics, I did not know about these ALCO engines. Here is what I know now.

ALCO C-643DH
C=Century / 6=6axles / 43=4300 HP / D=Diesel / H=Hydraulic

ALCO diesel hydraulics [C-643DH] were built for the Southern Pacific. These were to supplement the Krauss-Maffei diesel Hydraulics.

Beware, some of this post will be based on educated guesses:

The Southern Pacific Hydraulic program was an effort to get the maximum HP into a given unit. The period that this program was started, the existing electrical motors and generators had reached their physical limits. If the motor was made bigger then it would not fit in the existing trucks. The systems would need to be re-engineered on a complete locomotive basis. 2500 HP was the limit on a electrical motored 6 axle units. The ALCO C-643DH using hydraulic motors could produce about the same HP as a modern SD70 or 8-44CW

The ALCOs were to allow the maximum use of American made components in the program. The German engines required more maintenance then similar rated American engines.

These Hydraulic drive locomotives were soon limited to low grade [non-mountain] assignments. I suspect the lack of dynimac brakes may have justified these assignments.

Industry improvements in motor insulation and the improved generators & alternators, were factors in the death of this hydraulic program. The use of Kapton allowed higher HP motor to fit the existing diesel electric truck designs.

http://wx4.org/to/foam/sp/locos/hydro/oktoberfest.html

Regards, John *****************

We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. -- Aesop

Reply author: scsshaggy
Replied on: February 13 2014 4:36:25 PM
Message:

quote:

We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. -- Aesop Originally posted by JRG1951 - February 13 2014 :  3:41:09 PM

Reply author: JNXT 7707
Replied on: February 13 2014 6:28:15 PM
Message:

John - Don't ask me about the weather My main thought this morning was: if there is anything that can speed global warming, let's all chip in and see what we can do to help

That is fascinating information on the SP Hydraulic Program, I had no idea it was anything more than a brief experiment with those Krauss-Maffei locomotives. And speaking of which, here's some more of which I was not aware of: http://sp9010.ncry.org/otherkm.htm

/tyco/forum/uploaded/JNXT 7707/20140213182749_9004km01.jpg

Looks a lot like that Alco from the cab back, doesn't it?

Reply author: JNXT 7707
Replied on: February 16 2014 12:03:05 PM
Message:

Something more in line with the topic, a 'reworked' RS-11 in Mexico - thanks to Ray (rgcw5):

Reply author: metalsmith1
Replied on: February 19 2014 02:40:23 AM
Message:

This is the one true oddball on the LC&P. We shall call it C-6-RSDP-GP-22 and one-half....M. Sometimes it actually runs, mostly it takes up space at the engine house. This hot mess is a genuine scrap box special. It is a true act of trust in sharing this with my fellow Tyco fans because it is quite possibly the worst modeling I have ever done, take it in and have a good laugh. You have my blessing..ha,ha

Reply author: JNXT 7707
Replied on: February 19 2014 07:58:51 AM
Message:

That is......

A true testament to the resourcefulness of the LC&P shops....

Reply author: metalsmith1
Replied on: February 20 2014 02:40:50 AM
Message:

We'll blame this one on the apprentices, the journeymen in the back shop must have been on holiday

Reply author: JNXT 7707
Replied on: February 20 2014 3:45:37 PM
Message:

I have a similar ....ummm..."creation", that the JNXT roundhouse churned out a few years ago, but it's not an Alco - and I have been hijacking this thread enough

*relief spreads throughout the Tyco Forum*

Reply author: PRR 4800
Replied on: February 20 2014 8:40:04 PM
Message:

I never thought an HO locomotive could make me wince. Congrats on the self-propelled scrap heap honestly though, that's pretty impressive. All it needs now is a fuel tank!

Reply author: microbusss
Replied on: February 20 2014 8:50:03 PM
Message:

not bad, metalsmith
Put a belly tank on it, couplers & some headlights & its all good to go places & switch cars

Reply author: JRG1951
Replied on: February 20 2014 9:23:07 PM
Message:

Jerry,
Show us your creation, you cannot hijack a thread that belongs to you and the rest of us.

I hope to take an AHM RS2 and graph a AHM GP18 Engine shell on the back and create a rebuild. I would like to take another AHM RS2 and a RS11 and create another rebuild. Both of this type of rebuilds are pictured in this thread. These rebuilds would use the RS2 frame, short hood and cab as the basis for a locomotives that has been updated to GP9 and RS11 standards.

Regards, John ******************

Electric vehicles are for golf courses. <> Unknown

Reply author: metalsmith1
Replied on: February 21 2014 02:07:17 AM
Message:

Here is the prototype that was the inspiration for my LC&P unit. I took this photo in a scrap yard in Wood River Illinois where this thing was sent for last rights. Glad I got there when I did, I think they cut it up a few days later Oh yeah, the fuel tank on the LC&P was a from a Tyco F-unit.... it fell off.

Reply author: JRG1951
Replied on: February 21 2014 12:13:21 PM
Message:

Used Parts!

I noticed this while looking at the post for the MPRR GP16s..

The Missouri Pacific was resourceful, They used some parts in three different sets of locomotives or rebuilds.

/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20140221121054_Parts.gif

http://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/loco_1gen_rs.html

Regards, John *******************

The class of citizens who provide at once their own food and their own raiment, may be viewed as the most truly independent and happy. <> James Madison

Reply author: JNXT 7707
Replied on: February 21 2014 4:08:38 PM
Message:

quote:

Jerry, Show us your creation.... Originally posted by JRG1951 - February 20 2014 :  9:23:07 PM

Reply author: scsshaggy
Replied on: February 21 2014 6:00:59 PM
Message:

If you can freelance model a railroad, why not a locomotive.

I like it!

Reply author: PRR 4800
Replied on: February 22 2014 12:28:57 PM
Message:

Similarly, I read once that the trucks that were put on the very first UP gas turbine, the double-ended one, were put under a U50 when it was retired, and when the U50's quit in the 70's the same trucks went under 2 more u-boats!

Reply author: metalsmith1
Replied on: March 02 2014 03:00:16 AM
Message:

I saw one of the EMD test bed units that where made out of Amtrak SDP-40's roll in to Gateway Yard in east St. Louis one day and it had one D type truck under just the rear bolster. I have never seen any pictures of it and it was buried too deep in the yard for me to get a shot of it. Has anyone else ever heard of this before?

Reply author: lvrr325
Replied on: March 03 2014 3:21:48 PM
Message:

BN tested an SDP40 with a split B-B bolster rear truck in the 1980s, it looked like a 4-axle truck from the outside.

Reply author: metalsmith1
Replied on: March 04 2014 01:36:27 AM
Message:

That explains it, mystery solved. Thanks for the info

Reply author: kovacste000
Replied on: March 04 2014 10:36:18 AM
Message:

quote:

quote: Jerry, Show us your creation.... Originally posted by JRG1951 - February 20 2014 :  9:23:07 PM OK John you asked for it I can't quite decide what to call it. DDF7A? And sadly it is not my first attempt at creating. After I built the DD40B out of the two trashed Bachmann Centennials I had, there were "parts" left over. Instead of wisely saving them for something useful, I answered a question that no one had asked with this. Athearn F7A and B shells gave their lives in vain for the body. Not even sure that this particular construct would even be mechanically possible, but strangely I like it. Not something I would usually drag out for LOTW though Originally posted by JNXT 7707 - February 21 2014 :  4:08:38 PM

Reply author: JRG1951
Replied on: March 04 2014 11:54:52 AM
Message:

Jerry,
Your DD15X is pretty cool. I believe I would have sacrificed the Steam generator for an extra set of dynamic brakes. The original DD35 were designed without cabs, to be used with a GP35 on each end. How about a double F7B unit with an F7A at each end, that could be a plausible model. Just kidding. I do admire your ability to paint and model so many diverse items.

Regards, John *********************

A critic is a gong at a railroad crossing, clanging loudly and vainly as the train goes by <> Christopher Morley

Reply author: NickelPlate759
Replied on: March 04 2014 2:19:11 PM
Message:

I love it, Jerry! No room for gas anymore, but what the heck. Every short line should have at least one.

Btw, is there a drive train in it or is it just a dummy?

Reply author: JNXT 7707
Replied on: March 04 2014 3:50:03 PM
Message:

quote:

I love it, Jerry! No room for gas anymore, but what the heck. Every short line should have at least one. Btw, is there a drive train in it or is it just a dummy? Originally posted by NickelPlate759 - March 04 2014 :  2:19:11 PM

Reply author: NickelPlate759
Replied on: March 07 2014 1:38:44 PM
Message:

Actually, the fuel tank looks about the same size as the one on the FM Trainmaster. Not sure what kind of cruising range those beasts had, tho a fuel tender would be funny.

Reply author: scsshaggy
Replied on: March 07 2014 1:52:18 PM
Message:

Jerry, I don't mean to assign homework or anything, but I think a fuel tender would really look cool!

Reply author: JNXT 7707
Replied on: March 07 2014 3:47:33 PM
Message:

quote:

Jerry, I don't mean to assign homework or anything, but I think a fuel tender would really look cool! Originally posted by scsshaggy - March 07 2014 :  1:52:18 PM

Reply author: JNXT 7707
Replied on: March 22 2014 9:01:00 PM
Message:

Well the 'fuel tender' is just about done, all it's lacking are decals. I had an OLD Athearn F7 chassis with the "dual geared" power trucks that lacked a motor - and I had a Proto 1000 motor that needed something to do. So I married them together and miracle of miracles it runs. Lacks flywheels but there was no room for them, and it soldiers on pretty well without them. I think the gear ratio in these old geared power trucks is way different from the later Blue Box power trucks, because it prefers to crawl, almost like it has those Ernst super gears.
This will never be accused of being a "quiet, smooth runner" but it fits the locos personality

I'll post pics in a new thread when I get the decals on, probably tomorrow.

Reply author: NickelPlate759
Replied on: March 24 2014 6:20:48 PM
Message:

Here's a thread from the Diesel Detailer forum with some cool RS bashes using AHM RS-2 shells and GP18 chassis.

http://dieseldetailer.proboards.com/thread/4781/weird-bashed-alcos

Reply author: Tyco Nut
Replied on: October 10 2014 06:16:35 AM
Message:

This thread needs to be stickied!

Reply author: Redneck Justin
Replied on: October 26 2014 1:19:54 PM
Message:

SCL's odd ball Alco. Alco S-1 with a SW-series EMD hood unit. Be a fun little project.

[URL=http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/jdboomer904/media/tr_scl1151_zps7d80d18e.jpg.html] /tyco/forum/uploaded/Redneck Justin/tr_scl1151_zps7d80d18e.jpg [/URL]

Tyco Collector's Forum - : http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/