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 Posted - November 25 2009 : 7:15:04 PM
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I have seen the Helix Humper motors and guesstimate one can be had for $35 - $40. I've also read some posts in other forums saying it really isn't it worth it. Yes, it probably is an upgrade in performance but the chief complaint is that they're cheaply made. I've read they crap out after 30 hours due to bearing failure and that the brushes are not attached securely, sometimes they'll just fall off.
Can anyone tell me their experiences and observations on these regarding performance and reliability?
Also, what else is out there that is relatively easy to install?
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Posted - November 25 2009 : 10:28:48 PM
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It's funny that you just posted this, because I've been frustrated and disappointed with the Helix Humper kit I blew $30 on to remotor my Big Six some years ago, and have been trying to remedy in the past few days. Everything I'd heard about them at the time was positive, so I was surprised by all of the problems I encountered, such as:
1. The motor mount for these switchers is plastic, and the motor is secured to the mount with only one screw at the back, allowing the worm to lift and skip teeth. I had to CA the motor to the mount to stop this, which is not mentioned in the instructions.
2. The flywheel/worm is off center, causing enough vibration to make the firebox and frame rattle against each other. It's more than annoying. The motor shaft only extends 1/8" into the flywheel, which isn't nearly far enough to keep it true, assuming it was drilled on center to begin with.
3. I had thought this was a high quality 5 pole motor, but after looking at it closely realized it's nothing more than a 3 pole Mabuchi FK-130, motors that I bought from All Electronics for little more than a dollar a piece. The only difference in the HH is the ventilation slots in the side of the can.
These are great motors, and they wear like iron. I'm surprised to hear complaints about early failure, since I've installed quite a few in various locos without incident. What bugs me is that they are inexpensive, and HH charges a premium for them and additional parts that leave a lot to be desired. I can't comment on their motor kits for the larger steamers, but it sounds like people are having issues with them as well. That's probably why Dan at Yardbird doesn't carry them on his site any more, and had his own kits manufactured.
Dan has some good options using a narrow can motor that is essentially the same one that was used in Mantua steamers in the 90's. It's available with an angled mount, or with a flywheel and add-on gearbox, which is the way I'd go.
http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/YBMotorIndx.htm
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - November 26 2009 : 12:22:26 AM
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I don't have any experience with the HH.
I usually made my own worm mount and motor mount.
I bought a couple of D8124B gearboxs from Dan and would recomend them highly.
They are easy to install and reasonably priced.
Ray
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Posted - November 26 2009 : 12:25:13 PM
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| Thanks, I'll check out YB. I haven't seen his wares for over a year now. Last I remember he was still selling the HH, glad to hear he has something new.
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Posted - November 26 2009 : 7:44:01 PM
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I hadn't checked out Yardbird for a while either. I like those after market gearboxes... they're giving me ideas. 
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Posted - November 27 2009 : 11:46:11 AM
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| Yes, the gear boxes open up a world of possibilities.
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Posted - November 27 2009 : 3:37:25 PM
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Gentlemen,
I have several items I would like to call to your attention
Has anyone spoken with Dan Bush since 1 Sep 2009? I contracted with him that date to prepare an item that I was planning on giving as a Christmas gift. I have been unable to reach him since then. I also notice his usual EBay ads have not appeared for the last couple of weeks. He does have a note of explanation on his home page that gives his plans to sell his store and move 200 miles and get a new place up and running by 18 Nov 2009. That sounds like an enormous undertaking to this old man and Dan does speak of some of the plan going sour. I personally admire and respect Dan Bush and wish him well. But, I miss having contact with him especially when I get into I want, I need mode!
Mantua had three different drives on their larger steam engines. On the brass boiler Pacific and Atlantic, they had a fully enclosed gear case, very nice, very pricey. On the early diecast Mikado and Pacific that Todd speaks of they had what the parts book calls a gear cover (3426) which held a short shaft with a nylon 48 pitch worm gear (16648) running in self aligning bearings (6303) driving 26 tooth gear.. Sometime after the launch of Tyco RTR the cheapening of the product began. This gear cover drive was eliminated along with the larger motor that drove it. I have never been able to pin down the exact year this happened nor have I been able to date the adoption of the plastic cab and tender shell. I do have a 1955 Tyco set that features the Mikado with gear drive cover but 1965 parts manual shows the Tyco Mikado with a small motor and a 56 pitch worm driving a 34 tooth gear.
It appears that Yardbird part D8124B is the same as the Mantua gear cover (3426).
To mount this part it appears that you would have to layout, center and drill and tap 3 holes.
If your gears dont match up it appears you would have to mount a new drive gear and re-quarter the drivers.
Even in the best of times I would have had difficultly doing this modification. Now, with bad hands, its impossible. So, Ive cast around looking for options Of course you could contract with one of our fellow Forum members who are mechanical geniuses and take great delight in doing this sort of thing Or why not acquire an older Mantua-Tyco with the parts mounted and so all you have to do is install a can motor
NOTE: After reviewing this post I note that it sounds as if Im talking down to the other posters in this thread. Not so! A lot of Forum members are younger and havent the experience or knowledge of you older gents. I just try to simplify and illustrate some of older stuff we talk about.
And to the younger members I would say Come on in, the waters fine! Ask questions of these guys while you have a chance.
Loopy
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
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Posted - November 27 2009 : 3:54:32 PM
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The D8124B isn't the same as the Mantua gear cover (3426).
It is the same as the 80s Power drive gearbox and mounts with 2 screws into existing holes in the frame.
http://www.hoseeker.net/mantuainstructions/mantua282mikadopdinstrpg4.jpg
Ray
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Posted - November 27 2009 : 6:23:06 PM
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Ray,
I have a number of frames for both Mikados and Pacifics, made in Woodbury, by the Tylers, that have no pre existing holes. How can I mount the gear cover without drilling and taping holes and changing out the drive gear? The answer is you cant! My point is a Tyco branded Mike or Pac isnt a practical repower option unless you can find an early one with the gear cover mounted.
Loopy
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
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Posted - November 27 2009 : 11:36:02 PM
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I'm not going to argue with you about it.
I bought 2 of the gear boxes and bolted them on a Tyco Mike and Pacific that both had the small motor with the worm mounted on the motor.
I guess I have a couple of fluke frames then.
Ray
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Posted - November 28 2009 : 01:03:20 AM
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Even if you have to drill and tap the screw holes, that's no big deal.
Ray, is the housing plastic or urethane (resin)? A lot of repro parts I've seen are castings, and it looks like the 4 original screw heads at the corners have been replicated.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - November 28 2009 : 02:09:21 AM
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The gearbox castings are die casted metal.
I'm guessing the same as in the retro fit kits.
http://www.hoseeker.net/mantuainstructions/mantuaretrofit811pg2.jpg
Ray
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Posted - November 28 2009 : 02:14:37 AM
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Ah-so. Thanks. I hope I can order some, since Dan appears to be MIA at the moment.
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Posted - November 28 2009 : 02:43:06 AM
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In the instructions of the earlier retro fit kit (#810) It says that some frames may need the front hole drilled out.
The front hole is the same hole that is used to screw the bottom plate to the frame from the bottom. (second screw from the front)
Apparently some were drilled all the way through and some were only drilled part way through. So some frames will require drilling. The screw provided with the gear box is a self tapping screw.
Ray
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Posted - November 28 2009 : 07:50:32 AM
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Hey There:
Dan is BUSY moving his life to take care of his Parents. Some of it has gotten dicey. I last exchanged emails with him about the begining of October.
I'm waiting on a shipment of parts as well.
Roundhouse Prarie SF Metal boiler
Roundhouse 4-6-0 Chassis
Varney 76" drivers for my Mantua Pacific
Varney Pilot beam and Pilot itself
As Cinton would say,
"I feel your Pain!"
-Gareth
Edited by - romcat on November 28 2009 4:44:23 PM
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Posted - November 28 2009 : 4:39:26 PM
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quote:I'm not going to argue with you about it.
I bought 2 of the gear boxes and bolted them on a Tyco Mike and Pacific that both had the small motor with the worm mounted on the motor.
I guess I have a couple of fluke frames then.
Originally posted by Ray Marinaccio-November 27 2009: 11:36:02 PM
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Ray, If I sounded argumentative I apologize. Im a lover, not a fighter and probably a poor lover 'cause in this case I just couldnt find the hole!
I now see the hole is not drilled out all the way.
Loopy
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
Edited by - LoopnHook on November 28 2009 4:43:39 PM
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Posted - November 28 2009 : 6:05:14 PM
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quote:
I now see the hole is not drilled out all the way.
Originally posted by LoopnHook-November 28 2009: 4:39:26 PM
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I wasn't sure if they were all like mine that were both drilled all the way through.
Then after reading the instructions of the kit It seams that I just happened to get 2 frames that were drilled.
I wonder what other Tyco locomotives this gearbox might fit.
Ray
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Posted - December 13 2009 : 12:33:18 PM
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| FYI - Yardbird is back in business, selling again on eBay.
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Posted - December 13 2009 : 1:15:09 PM
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Yup, saw that to, Todd. Waiting for a reply to my email. Gotta get my Post Office assasinated Varney Super Consolie to him for Re-restoration.
-Gareth
"A is A"
-Aristotle
Law of Identification
Edited by - romcat on December 13 2009 1:36:47 PM
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Posted - November 20 2017 : 8:11:40 PM
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Could someone advice on inexpensive source of narrow motor to repower Mantua? NWSL is too $$$
quote:Yup, saw that to, Todd. Waiting for a reply to my email. Gotta get my Post Office assasinated Varney Super Consolie to him for Re-restoration.
-Gareth
Originally posted by romcat - December 13 2009 : 1:15:09 PM
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Posted - November 20 2017 : 11:41:59 PM
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quote:Could someone advice on inexpensive source of narrow motor to repower Mantua? NWSL is too $$$
Originally posted by leofuture - November 20 2017 : 8:11:40 PM
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I had pretty good luck with putting a neodymium magnet in the original Mantua motor. I used a 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/2" magnet with a hole through it running from pole to pole. This makes the motor a bit longer, but in a Pacific or Mikado, there's room. In the smaller engines, 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/4" with the poles running across a half-inch dimension will do. This makes for more torque - helpful in the big engines.
In the Mikado, I used a motor with a screw through the magnet rather than a newer one with a rivet. The screw runs through the hole in the 1/2" cube. This being an older motor, it ran noisy until I discovered that the rear thrust washers were worn to about half their normal thickness and added another washer. This forced the armature back to where it should be in the magnetic field and quieted things down a bit. By today's standards, it's still a bit loud, but not screaming.
I get the magnets online from K&J Magnetics https://www.kjmagnetics.com/. They have a big selection.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - February 04 2018 : 10:33:35 AM
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I don't want to replace the motor on my Mantua Pacific, but I may have to because I don't know how well my bodged repair of the one motor brush mount really works. Is the YardBird kit still available?
Feedback-hungry attention w****
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