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 Posted - November 17 2009 : 9:48:49 PM
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i'm looking to repower my ahm rivarossi birkshire. it has the old original motor in it & it just sucks. i would like to have more torque & speed out of it, it's week & slow now & it drives me crazy. any of you done this? do you remember what it took? part numbers & where to buy?
jerry
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Posted - November 17 2009 : 10:38:43 PM
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I remotored 2 of mine.
http://www.2guyzandsumtrains.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=1004.html
Ray
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Posted - November 17 2009 : 11:22:32 PM
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i new before i even posted that you would know how! your good. lol
do you know where i could get a motor? do they sell them new with the mounting holes pre-drilled? what about coupling the new motor up with the old drive shaft?
thanks ray.
jerry
Edited by - smokie on November 18 2009 12:39:26 AM
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Posted - November 18 2009 : 12:03:25 AM
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I had to drill mounting holes to lign up with the stock mount.
You could mount it with silicone.
The U-joint couplings I used came from Mehano 4-6-2 locos on one and VCR couplings on the other.
NWSL driveshaft kit would probably work better.
Those motors were a tight squeeze into the cab.
I don't know who might sell those motors new. I got them from VCRs and tape decks.
Ray
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Posted - November 18 2009 : 01:01:49 AM
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Hey Ray,
Would this fit?
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/DCM-300/12-VDC-IRON-CORE-MOTOR/1.html
Says its 25mm long and 25.5mm wide. I have these and they are very good motors.
Also, this one:
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/DCM-272/24-VDC-MOTOR/-/1.html
I have not tried this one, but it might fit in the cab.
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Posted - November 18 2009 : 01:03:29 AM
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Oh Ray, I hate to ask, but are their ANY working appliances in your house? Seems that you would have removed all the motors for repowerings!
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Posted - November 18 2009 : 02:50:04 AM
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quote:Oh Ray, I hate to ask, but are their ANY working appliances in your house? Seems that you would have removed all the motors for repowerings!
Originally posted by Hypoponera-November 18 2009: 01:03:29 AM
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I have to keep the refrigerator and stove working.
We do seem to go through alot of VCRs and CD players.
Those motors may fit if the original mount on the frame is cut off.
I think this is one of the ones I used.
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-bin/catalog/e_catalog.cgi?CAT_ID=rf_500tb
Ray
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Posted - November 18 2009 : 05:05:53 AM
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I used a disk tray motor in my Y6b, and it works great. Smokie, why don't you test-fit one of your Playstation motors? They're larger diameter than the typical tray motor, but if Ray manged to shoehorn those beasts into the cab, then they should clear, lol.
I have a large collection of the motors Ray used in my junk box, if you want some. They were VCR spool, cassette deck, and CD carousel motors, IIRC. I've never used any because I find the smaller tray motors sufficient, and a lot less visible in the cab.
Hypop, the Canon motor you linked to is a perfect fit for all Rivarossi big UP steam, but I found the torque to be a good bit less than the original. They're also quite slow. I managed to fit one inside an AHM Plymouth switcher, with a little surgery first. The speed range is perfect for that.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - November 18 2009 : 09:43:32 AM
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Hey Nelson,
Yep, I saw your info on that Plymouth. That's what I bought a couple of those motors for. I have a couple of those Plymouths and the kids love 'em. So I meant to cut down the Canon motors as you did. Just have not gotten to that project yet. The old motors still work so the kids remain blissfully unaware of how far behind I am!
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Posted - November 18 2009 : 12:33:02 PM
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i did test fit a ps2 motor in it last night. it will fit, i just don't know about the rpm of the motor. i guess if it's to fast i could regear it. how do you regear these? i've never done any regearing.
anyone know the gear ratio of a power torque? what about my birkshire?
jerry
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Posted - November 18 2009 : 1:17:26 PM
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| well I got a source (I hope) for parts like that
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Posted - November 18 2009 : 1:20:54 PM
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I've never checked the ratio of the PT gearing, but you can get a ballpark estimate by putting a mark on a wheel and the pinion, then count how many revolutions of the pinion it takes for one wheel rotation. I think there's a decent amount of reduction, because my 2-8-0 runs slower now with the tray motor. If those PS2 motors make your PT engines faster, then you'll probably need a regear kit for the Berk. Test it with the stock gearing first, but NWSL makes one for the upper gearbox that drops the speed around 60% that's an easy install. You just have to swap the worm & worm gear in the upper gearbox for the NWSL gears.
Hypop, I thought I'd posted that pic before. Those AHM Plymouths would give an Athearn Hustler a run for its money. It's a good thing they're OO scale so that those Canons fit.
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Posted - November 18 2009 : 9:07:23 PM
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well i put in a ps2 motor today. it have pleanty of top end, but it didn't have enough torque. then when i tryed to put the shell on it just did hit. just enough so that it wouldn't fit. so i put the old motor back in. with the power pack wide open, the origenal motor runs steady but every now & then it will gain some rpm & start running faster, then it will slow back down to normal. is this normal for the rivarossi motor?
did any of you have to add weight to your birk? i added about an ounce & a half. it will pull ten (tyco heavy drag?) cars but it still spinning (with the tray motor). the factory motor will pull them but not as fast. neather motor has any low speed capabilities pulling a load, it stalls.
NickelPlate759 do you think you have a motor? it can only be about .850" long.
jerry
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Posted - November 19 2009 : 03:58:47 AM
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Smokie, try cleaning the gaps between the commutator plates with a small screwdriver or a piece of wire, then blast it out with contact cleaner or compressed air. That's the way they behave when brush dust builds up in the gaps and begins to short.
Old Rivarossis were on the light side, so extra weight doesn't hurt. Old, hardened traction tires will cause it to slip, too.
Does this have a square ball bearing motor, or the later round can? I have some motors, but that one should come back to life. I've never seen a Rossi motor burn out, and I've had a lot of them.
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Posted - November 19 2009 : 10:14:49 AM
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it had a roundish can motor. i took it apart & cleaned it real good, it has no ball bearings in it. before i cleaned it, it ran good but as it warmed up it started getting slower & slower. after i cleaned it, it doesn't run as fast as it did, & it gets sperts of rpm. it might go around the track 15-20 times & them pick up some speed & rpm for a half a lap, then slow back down.
jerry
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Posted - November 19 2009 : 10:23:07 AM
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Weird. You could try reheating the solder joints on the commutator. If that doesn't do it, I guess it's bad. Any corrosion on the brush springs?
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Posted - November 19 2009 : 10:47:11 AM
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the motor was pretty clean.
how does this motor look? i don't know if it has enough rpm's or not though.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330275091848&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
jerry
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Posted - November 19 2009 : 11:18:33 AM
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It sounds like your old motor has some shorted out windings on the armature.
I might have one of the stock motors laying around, I would have to see if any are still good.
I think regearing with the NWSL kit and the PS2 motor would be the best route though.
Ray
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Posted - November 19 2009 : 4:04:58 PM
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If you really want one of those large motors, I'll give you one Smokie, but I agree with Ray.
Ray, what is the top speed with those motors installed and the original gearing? I have a few different model numbers and the RPM's vary a bit, but they don't seem to run very fast at 15v.
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Posted - November 19 2009 : 4:47:04 PM
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what kind of rpm does the factory rivarossi motor turn?
if i could get a good factory motor like whats in it, i would probably just try that first.
the ps2 motor is just a little to tall. it won't let the shell go all the way down, & i hate to cut the frame just yet.
NickelPlate759, i might take you up on the motor, i'll just have to wait & see.
jerry
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Posted - November 20 2009 : 12:47:56 AM
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The speed before I regeared them was about the same as the original motors.
I don't know what the RPM of the stock motors are but they are a lower RPM than other locomotive motors.
Ray
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Posted - November 23 2009 : 7:39:35 PM
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does anyone have a good stock rivarossi motor? mine went south today.
ray, do you know the dementions of the motor you used? i've scrounged through a few old vcr's & a couple tape decks & all the motors i'm finding are to long.
jerry
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Posted - November 23 2009 : 8:21:36 PM
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Can you send me a pic of the RRosi motor you have? I may have a replacement...
-Gareth
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Posted - November 23 2009 : 8:28:15 PM
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quote:ray, do you know the dementions of the motor you used?
Originally posted by smokie-November 23 2009: 7:39:35 PM
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I'll check and see if I have another one. I might have a stock motor also.
Ray
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Posted - November 23 2009 : 9:08:43 PM
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Ray i would appreciate it. i hate having one not running.
jerry
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Posted - November 24 2009 : 09:02:12 AM
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I have a few spares, but not from the Berk. I have a round motor from a Pacific, but I think the shaft is too short to reach the coupling.
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Posted - November 28 2009 : 11:51:37 PM
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well thanks to Ray i've got my berk running again. i also tryed the big vcr motor he sent & it lacked about .080" of an inch from letting the shell go all the way down. bumber, but the stock motor he sent is doing great. i put it in, put on a new traction tire & it's doing great. it's running much better than before.
thank you very much Ray.
jerry
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Posted - November 29 2009 : 1:35:19 PM
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Congrats! 
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Posted - November 29 2009 : 10:36:48 PM
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do any of you know what size the screws are that go into the back of the rivarossi motors? one of the motors ray sent (thanks again) looks a little cleaner than the other, but the holes aren't tapped in the right place, so i gotta buy a tap, but i need to know what size to order. a 4-40 is to coarse to go in, & a 2-56 is to small.
jerry
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Posted - November 29 2009 : 11:31:35 PM
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It may be possible to thread the holes with a self tapping screw. I've seen the same thread self tapping screws used in computers and VCRs.
It would make a cheap tap.
Ray
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Posted - November 30 2009 : 01:41:59 AM
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The tap is a M2.5 x .45. I got one at my LHS, and it cuts a lot easier than a self-tapping screw. Just make sure the windings are out of the way, or take the armature out altogether, since it never hurts to clean the metal shavings out of the housing.
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Posted - November 30 2009 : 02:23:19 AM
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Taking the motor apart and using a tap would probably be best.
When I drilled and tapped the new holes on the 2 can motors on mine, I used a strong magnet on the drill and tap to catch the filings before they got to the motor magnets. (it is a bit risky)
Another option that would work if you wanted to disassemble the motor is to put the armature and brush holder end of the one motor into the housing of the original motor.
Ray
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