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 Posted - June 18 2008 : 10:01:43 AM
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Hello All-- I'm hoping someone here has had this same trouble with Tyco/Mantua steam engines and can help me (the older style open frame motor/metal boiler). Problem: I have one Pacific and one Mikado that will either BEGIN running fine, then start to slow and eventually run only at about half-speed. Sometimes they begin SLOW, and after removing them from the layout and revving them up on the workbench, will run fine. This usually ends if run in reverse, then trying to go forward again. My smaller locos (0-4-0, etc.) don't have this problem, and neither do my can motors (or can't be perceived because of less current draw). I HAVE: Cleaned wheels and all electrical parts, lubed front and rear motor bearings, checked for binding, etc. My first thought was the rear motor bearings, but they've been lubed. Could it possibly be that my transformer (Tech 4, MRC 200) isn't providing enough juice to motivate these older, heavy locos? These locos don't even begin to move until the control knob is about halfway through its turn. Thanks (also, could the magnets be getting weak?)
Edited by - Adams on June 18 2008 10:04:21 AM
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Posted - June 18 2008 : 12:24:25 PM
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| Problem hopefully solved! While it's true that these old locos draw a lot more current, it wasn't the power pack. I thought it odd that both locos had the same problem, but took both down into pieces, cleaned every contact surface, soaked motor bearings in electrical contact spray, re-lubed everything with very thin oil, started from ground-up. Both run fine, now. Apparently, letting these guys mostly sit on a shelf allows them to tarnish, dry up, etc.
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Posted - June 19 2008 : 12:46:14 PM
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Adams,
Thanks, useful info!
Alco Fan
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Posted - June 19 2008 : 3:06:16 PM
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You fixed them before anyone could respond. [:D]
Those older open frame motors can be flaky, since they aren't as consistent as a can motor even when running properly. It can be anything from oily brushes to weak spring pressure on them, or pickup issues. I finally wired the tender trucks directly to the tender floor on my old Pacific to reinforce the tender pickup, and found it eliminated some of the stalling problems I'd had.
The Tyco Depot
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B 67
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Posted - June 20 2008 : 10:27:35 AM
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quote: (also, could the magnets be getting weak?)
Originally posted by Adams - June 18 2008 : 10:01:43 AM
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Weak magnets can be a problem with old open frame motors. Sluggish running and hot running is usually a sign of weak magnets.
I'm lucky enough to have a device that very quickly remagnetizes the motors, usually without even the need to dismantle the locos any further than removing the body. I've mostly used it on old Tri-ang and Hornby-Dublo models, but have done others. Put the loco back on the track and it's running like new.
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Posted - June 20 2008 : 11:31:34 AM
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| I'd like to get hold of such a device, B67. I still think weak magnets could be part of the problem, because of the nature of the problem--no stalling problems, just sluggish running that the loco would eventually break out of after reaching speed, and taking load off the motor. I think possibly that all the cleaning and lubing I did may be masking the problem, because of the lack of friction. NP, I like your idea of wiring the tender, because I have had pickup problems before. My solution was that I added weight to the tender. I have several other Mantuas that have always run fine, so I don't think they are ultra-sensitive, making me think it's something like the magnets. I'll report back if these locos revert to their old behaviors.
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B 67
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Posted - June 21 2008 : 10:38:18 AM
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The device I have is basically a couple of large electro-magnets, one fixed, one that slides and can be clamped in place around the item to be magnetized.
I got it from a customer who built it from an article in a UK model train magazine. But it wasn't powerful enough for what he wanted (not model trains). So he built an even larger one and I got the "small" one.
It is connected to a convenient car battery, I make sure I'm not wearing a watch or anything containing steel or iron, push the button a couple of times and "hey presto", the correctly aligned motor magnet (or any piece of steel I care to insert) has become strongly magnetized. And if I have somehow managed to put it in the wrong way and the loco goes in reverse, I just have to put it back in the other way around and press the button again to reverse the magnet. It's been a very handy device over the years.
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Posted - June 27 2008 : 9:53:47 PM
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| O.K. guys-- My Mikado is back to old tricks. You may recall that I tore it down to the bone, cleaned and lubed everything. Seemed to work at first, but now will only attain about half-speed going forward. Will run full-speed in reverse. Most common problem is usually rear bearing, but it's been cleaned, oiled, and run-in. Has anyone else had this same problem with Tyco/Mantua steamers? It's driving me mad!!
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Posted - June 28 2008 : 01:49:24 AM
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Is the motor overheating when it does this? That's a sure sign of weak magnets, but the fact that it suddenly favors reverse makes me wonder if it isn't brush alignment, or weak brush springs. I'm assuming you've checked all of that, though.
An easy way to multiply the magnetism is to replace the old magnet with a stack of Neodymium super power magnets. You can buy them on eBay, but personally I just steal them from the used heads on my Sonicare toothbrush when I throw them out. They've revived more than a few motors for me. If you try it, however, the old magnet will lose most of its power when removed from the motor frame.
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Posted - June 28 2008 : 09:59:53 AM
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| Thanks for the help, NP. I'll look at the brushes/springs again. I have an old 0-4-0 that runs fine-if it's the same motor, may just exchange them and see what happens. This Mikado was unused in the box when I received it--been on a shelf for the last 30 years.
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