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 Posted - January 10 2008 : 11:21:58 AM
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Hello All Tycophiles! I recently re-read GIC's excellent research on the Alco 630's, and went to my cabinet to see exactly what I had. Turns out I have a new-in-box 630 in ICG paint. I took it out and noticed it has the snap-in fuel tank/weight. However, it has some other features that make it look a bit older. While it does have the PT motor, it also has metal handrails (included in a separate package), and the older ICG scheme that has a wider orange stripe, smaller lettering, and a smaller paper sticker. The GIC posting seems to show the snap-in tank with the smaller orange stripe, larger paper sticker, and possibly plastic handrails. The lettering also is a gaudier size and look (in my opinion). Also, the box has a printed date of 1977 on it, but of course, that may not indicate when the loco was actually made. Any thoughts?
...........One thing I can say for sure is that it runs and looks GREAT! I love the massiveness of those, and when a PT is NEW and OILED, it's a good motor--if only temporarily.... I also have a theory as to why these have headlights and number boards on the "back" of the loco--I remember as a kid always running my GP-20 long-hood first. I would bet that some of the Tyco folks in the '70's might not have been sure as to which direction the engine would be run, so left the boards on the long end!! (just a theory, of course!)
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Roy
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Posted - January 10 2008 : 12:53:01 PM
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quote:| .... I also have a theory as to why these have headlights and number boards on the "back" of the loco--I remember as a kid always running my GP-20 long-hood first. I would bet that some of the Tyco folks in the '70's might not have been sure as to which direction the engine would be run, so left the boards on the long end!! (just a theory, of course!) |
At that time, N&W and Southern bought high short hood diesels, and ran them long hood first.
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Posted - January 10 2008 : 1:00:01 PM
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Hey Guys:
The 630HH's were run short hood forward as far as my photo's indicate on the N&W. Can't say about the "20's"
-Gareth
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Posted - January 10 2008 : 1:16:43 PM
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| I guess I should clarify that GIC, in his post, was curious as to why Tyco left the number boards on the back of the 630, when they had merely blanked them out on other locos for cost-saving. My thought was that the Tyco people may have left them on the 'rear' either because they didn't realize which end was 'front', or because it was common for kids to run them long-hood forward. GIC also describes the 630 as being the "flagship" of the late Tyco line. As such, maybe they were more likely to try to keep just a bit of quality and detail in this loco.
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Posted - January 10 2008 : 2:09:55 PM
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Glad you found it helpful.
The ICG you describe is the earlier version and is about as common as the later one. They changed it around 77/78 or so. I didn't have "all" of the 630's when I wrote the guide, as I was more interested in the tooling variants. I'm not sure when the metal handrails were exchanged for plastic but it was indeed somewhere in that same 77-78 timeframe. The GP20 also went to plastic rails at this time (for some reason the 430 was ignored and just lost handrails altogether).
One note about the rear numberboards... they DID offer some 630's with reversing headlights to take advantage, so perhaps if they were planning that feature for a while, that's why they left them in? The 430 lost them pretty quickly.
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Posted - January 10 2008 : 2:57:45 PM
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| Thanks, GIC, that's a much more plausible theory. The thought crossed my mind to retrofit one with either directional lights or just another light that would shine all the time. I don't want to do it to my pristine/boxed example, though.
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Posted - January 10 2008 : 10:17:30 PM
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One thing that seems strange about the 630 I just aquired is it has all .062" axles. I thought .125" axles were pretty nuch standard??
Does anyone know if it's a bad idea to run these DC Tycos on a DCC system that supports 1 DC loco like the Bachmann EZ command system?
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Posted - January 11 2008 : 03:14:42 AM
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What? Short hood as front?
1976, I got my 1776/1976 Presidential train set for Christmas and ran it long hood forward. Naturally with, then, rear wheel drive, right?
I mean, except for SP's cab-forwards, and a few other shorter cab-forwards, the diesel always ran long hood forward, right?
Besides SR and NW, GN did the same up through the GP-20's, I think.
And then, I learned the truth. Didn't dawn on me until my later teens that I was running this locomotive incorrectly. But, hey... when the real railroads couldn't turn their loco's (steam or diesel) around, they had to run them backwards.
A question I have regarding this topic is: When most all of the roads bought older loco's with the long hood as front (i.e. GN to BN), did they convert those to run short hood as front? Or did the engineer have to stretch his/her body or neck to try and see their train? Compared to those "long hood front" diesels, the control stand was generally on the wrong side.
I know that some, Soo Line (or Northern Pacific) had the "pinetree" stripes on both ends because it was dual controlled.
Any answers?
John
I don't have a one track mind. It depends on the turn-out.
"I love your catenary!"
Is that a power-trip or just another pick-up line?
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Posted - January 11 2008 : 04:54:16 AM
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Hi:
I know the D%H RS3's were LH forward till the Morris-Knudeson conversion and short hood was chopped wherin the controls were moved to allow SH fwd as primary. I also have pics of C630's in N&W paint clearly being operated SH fwd based on the engineers orientation in the cab window.
Hope that helps
-Gareth
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Posted - January 11 2008 : 11:00:21 AM
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The B&O also ran their original GP-7's LHF (Long Hood Forward). I do not think all of these were converted, as when they were converted to Chessie units, the Cat was painted on the LH end... the end with the cat was always designated as front.
But I have indeed heard that rebuilds would often swap control stands and such around to make them a "true" SHF unit... depends on how extensive the rebuild was supposed to be I guess.
I've been told that the primary reason that NW and Southern continued to run LHF, was from concern for crew safety: better protection for the crew when a drag would plow into a coal truck around a blind corner in the mountains. Can't argue that one.
Then on the flipside of that argument, you had oddities like the BQ23-7, where crew impact protection seemed like a pure afterthought!
Just a small part of what makes railroading so interesting.
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Posted - January 11 2008 : 11:10:51 AM
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| It probably belongs in a different category, but while we are here on the topic of 630's, has anyone had success putting a Tyco 630 body on a different drive, such as the Athearn TM?
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Posted - January 11 2008 : 3:28:46 PM
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Brianstyco has used a Stewart C630/628 chassis & drive to good effect, although that is a pricey option for most people. You can search for it on the forum, I think he did it to a Golden Eagle.
You can search for Brian's kitbash. Athearn's GE frames can work on a 430 with some minor modification to the shell, so it stands to reason you could do that to a 630 IF there is a long enough Athearn frame out there?
Our resident Mad Scientist, Mr. Ray, has probably got some advice...
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Posted - January 11 2008 : 10:05:37 PM
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quote:It probably belongs in a different category, but while we are here on the topic of 630's, has anyone had success putting a Tyco 630 body on a different drive, such as the Athearn TM?
Originally posted by Adams - January 11 2008 : 3:10:51 PM
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Several years back I bashed a low nose Super C630 (using the C-430 cab) and attempted to put in an Athearn TM drive. I didn't like the obvious FM trucks so I ground the sideframes down to the journals (the sideframes are cast metal with journals cast in) and glued on rivarossi U25C side frames. This looked terrible and was way too wide to boot. I finally replaced the drive with a stewart drive with tri-mount trucks. the frame fit pretty easily. At the time, I did it in a whatif D&H scheme;today I would do it in a what if NYSW scheme. It was a good project.
Something we don't talk about much: TYCO locomotives have hood widths that are close to scale, unlike many other brands that were offered at the time.
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Posted - January 12 2008 : 6:59:36 PM
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| If you want a cheap mechanism, I have had great success dropping the C630 shell on to an AHM/L.L./Model Power/IHC C628 chassie/mechanism. I posted a C630 rebuild in the kitbashing section.
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 Posted - January 21 2008 : 03:50:54 AM
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long ago, in a distant land... er...
I owned a Tyco Super 630 in 1776/1976 Presidential garb.
One of my first kitbashes was obtaining an Athearn U-30-C in the Milwaukee Road paint.
I removed the burned out motor from the Tyco and slipped the U-30-C chassi into it.
Now, you could call this bashing a "pimp job" since I have pulled a great amount of tonnage with the borne-again power.
Imagine, A Tyco Super 630 pulling 30-45 cars with no problems.
Totally awesum.
And, this time... short hood as front.
Thanks for the attention.
John
I don't have a one track mind. It depends on the turn-out.
"I love your catenary!"
Is that a power-trip or just another pick-up line?
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rwa325
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Posted - January 23 2008 : 5:08:44 PM
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| Greetings from the new kid (actually, old guy) on the block. I am hoping someone can tell me something about the limited edition Alco 630 which came out some time prior to 1975. It had the correct Alco Tri-mount trucks, center mounted motor connected to both trucks via drive shafts and 8 wheels powered, A1A + A1A. I heard that it was made for Sears-Roebuck. Any information will be grerastly appreciated!
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Posted - January 24 2008 : 11:29:03 AM
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The first 630s (what I have called "Phase One") were not intentionally sold as limited editions, but are scarce. Have no idea if Sears got them all or not.
They used a bizarre drive system designed by Rivarossi which was an is unlike anything else ever seen by Tyco. There was a forward- (not center-) mount motor above the frame, connected to a center differential, which connected both trucks below the frame. The tyco name was embossed into those Tri-mount sideframes. It was a decent performer. The shell also had additional details which were later removed to accomodate the Powertorque and front nose decals.
Four roadnmaes were available and all may be considered scarce with this drive.
More info is in the article on 630's in the GIC corner section.
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Posted - January 24 2008 : 8:55:17 PM
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| The reason locomotives were ran long hood forward was for SAFETY-- especially grade crossing accidents. In the 60's and 70's- diesel locomotive engineer fatalities were high from collisions at rail crossings running cab forward. The Southern was first i beleive to run long hood forward as i remember seeing this in a railroad safety documentary video. Many railroads today still run long hood including Norfolk Southern on the older diesels that are lead units--at least in my area that i have seen
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Posted - February 11 2008 : 10:09:16 PM
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I was suprizied to find this Phase 1 Super 630 so clean with no noticable finger prints except on the tank sides. And it has no glazing on the windows. I mentioned once before in another post that the plows were clip-ons. Since the original chassis was a Rivirossi drive it I don't see how it could be attached to the shell with the trucks in place if the plows weren't added afterwards. The Mantua and PT trucks could have been manipulated so that the plows wouldn't matter but the design wasn't changed.
Alco Fan
Edited by - Alco Fan on March 01 2008 10:45:42 PM
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Posted - February 12 2008 : 01:04:24 AM
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Hey AF:
The PH1 630 is rare. I have two. A ICG and a SF both in the original boxes.
I also have PH2 D&H and an ICG as well as a PH4 So76. My favourite Alco.
-Gareth
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Posted - February 12 2008 : 08:55:25 AM
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I remember you posted you had several. This is my first PH1 so I'm a rookie to the club. I have other PTed but Mantua 630s, a D&H, a So76, a PH2 SF, and one of my favorites a Golden Eagle that I run often.
I need to pay more attention to getting boxes but I figured that if I waited I might not even get one. This is a clean one.
Alco Fan
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Posted - February 12 2008 : 09:19:36 AM
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Hey AF:
Nice looking unit, no question.
-G
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