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 Rivarossi 2-10-2 gear issues.....
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RP model railroads
Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - May 09 2021 :  10:56:15 PM Link directly to this topic  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
So, long story short, I bought a Rivarossi B&O 2-10-2 steam locomotive last week from Hennings for cheap, and the price sticker said - "motor runs, won't move." I put it on my test track, and at first thought the issue was due to a loose rod bolt. Nope. I then proceeded to take it apart (by far the largest steam engine I've taken apart yet,) and realized that the actual gear itself that makes vertical contact with the gear on one of the drivers wasn't moving, so I went deeper and discovered something unfortunate. Inside of the gearbox thingy inside of the boiler shell was a small piece of plastic debris (don't know where it came from) and brass shavings everywhere. Sure enough, the little brass gear attached to the vertical rod is completely stripped, and the steel? worm gear it meshes with looked fine at first, but it is also damaged. I guess something caused it to jam, and the worm gear destroyed the little brass gear....... 0___0

Does anyone know where I can find another one of these little brass gears and a worm gear? Considering that Rivarossi used the same size drivers on a lot of their steam locomotives, did they also use similar gear set-ups?

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

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Edited by - RP model railroads on May 09 2021 10:58:16 PM
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Chops124
Big Boy





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 Posted - May 10 2021 :  01:46:57 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Chops124 to Buddylist
Yikes, what a mess. This sort of thing turned me off to AHM, and now
with North American power I almost exclusively use old Athearn BB.
Best of luck to you.
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Erik The Train Nerd
Hudson

Tyco/Mantua Rio Grande 4-8-0

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 Posted - May 10 2021 :  11:16:55 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Erik The Train Nerd to Buddylist
That happened to my rivarossi 2-8-8-2 I managed to find a replacement part on ebay but that one just got ground down too. I wish I knew what the issue was
Edited by - Erik The Train Nerd on May 10 2021 11:17:30 AM
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scsshaggy
Big Boy


scsshaggy

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 Posted - May 10 2021 :  1:09:28 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add scsshaggy to Buddylist
I don't know if it was the issue in this case, but metal gears wear out awfully quickly if they're not well greased.
Carpe Manana!
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RP model railroads
Big Boy



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 Posted - May 10 2021 :  8:54:46 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
Yeah, it is quite disturbing. I have a lot of AHM diesels and they run very well. One or 2 Rivarossi steam locomotives, likewise. But this is my biggest steamer yet, and....ouch....

Erik, did you find the replacement part for sale on Ebay separately or had to buy a for-parts locomotive?

Shaggy, interesting conclusion. I wonder why Rivarossi would have decided to place such a gear set-up that requires regular maintenance inside of the boiler shell where you have to take out tons of screws and disassemble the whole locomotive just to access it.

Yeah, I didn't do any cleaning, so as seen in the photos, the gears are bone dry.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

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kovacste000
Big Boy



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 Posted - May 11 2021 :  02:26:59 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add kovacste000 to Buddylist
I must be lucky, because I've never had this issue with Rivarossi locos. Maybe it's because I put no shortage of lubricants on these parts (the one on your's, RP, looks dry as a bone), or maybe I'm just incredibly lucky. Rivarossi locos (in my experience) tend to be fairly reliable.
-Steve

"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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kristofer4301
Hudson

meirl

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 Posted - May 11 2021 :  08:57:54 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add kristofer4301 to Buddylist
Have you checked to see if NWSL makes replacement gearing for this?
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RP model railroads
Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - May 11 2021 :  9:32:02 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
quote:
Have you checked to see if NWSL makes replacement gearing for this?

Originally posted by kristofer4301-May 11 2021: 08:57:54 AM



I didn't even know NWSL existed - have bookmarked for future reference.

When I look up "Rivarossi" only 8 products appear, and this is the closest looking thing to the gears in the 2-10-2, although it says it is for 0-4-0T/Plymouth diesel. I don't think that those are the right ones though.
https://nwsl.com/products/worm-gear-0-3mod-x-16-teeth-x-5-4mm-od-x-1-5mm-bore-delrin

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

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scsshaggy
Big Boy


scsshaggy

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 Posted - May 11 2021 :  10:19:55 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add scsshaggy to Buddylist
They may be able to help you figure it out if you contact them. There is a forum about regearing and remotoring model trains. I'm no longer on it, but I used to be, mostly to watch from the sidelines. If memory serves, the folks at NWSL were pretty consultative.

Also, they sell gear boxes. It could be that they have some that would match the shaft sizes in and out, so that you could replace the whole gear box if there's no good match on just the gears.

It looks like the shaft going straight down from the gear box would probably have a worm on it, engaging a gear on an axle. Have you looked at those gears? I wonder what shape they're in.

Carpe Manana!
Edited by - scsshaggy on May 11 2021 10:22:40 PM
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Chops124
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 Posted - May 11 2021 :  10:47:02 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Chops124 to Buddylist
I heard that NWSL had gone out of business last year,
they are still going?
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scsshaggy
Big Boy


scsshaggy

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 Posted - May 12 2021 :  07:35:24 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add scsshaggy to Buddylist
I'm under the impression that the original owner had to get out of the business, but someone else has taken over.
Anyway, the website is still there, and updated this year.

Carpe Manana!
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microbusss
Big Boy





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 Posted - May 12 2021 :  5:59:47 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add microbusss to Buddylist
quote:
I'm under the impression that the original owner had to get out of the business, but someone else has taken over.
Anyway, the website is still there, and updated this year.

Originally posted by scsshaggy - May 12 2021 :  07:35:24 AM


& I just read in MR that scaletrains.con acquired MTH HO & S tooling
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security Manager
Switcher

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 Posted - May 12 2021 :  10:58:19 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add security Manager to Buddylist
It seems the Brass spur gear is too soft for the steel worm gear.

The spur gear looks to be 12 teeth.

Check this link for Steel Spur Gears

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174551782302?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item28a418d39e:g:U6kAAOSwDr9f0A2C&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACgBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickkSG%252BOFgrj2Yvbvmrj2TAdM3kag5xjzTeIr9sAup1H%252FNEeLxlDhMBE03Ay33Dw64zKe%252B%252BdLnhrFX7UJOaPNZ%252BO2FkaSUCO9R16gqqLYY2FAu3XFz6x52oK9EpCFjgzxgvkIF4C%252FGGt7%252BeKxs5zvaZp1fVhkRy3soWD12Rqwsl8VvKLn%252B1%252BnGysmAykTxDCmH0SnyYzBJxM9ZkGmPAywOCwj255Wneb%252FOis3UpEEcTo5vtloOVE8p0C0BIbBANUCPps0%252FtC%252FhZ9xTyKXWBSF7eqW%252F3IW9ofYVd9Xj3Xr%252F5yqSkTtGqfbafyZaH6rR3ptoOY784QSlW5%252F%252BU5Vc268o0qSRaz61gemX9d1ivBoB8zRXN2cWQ2RYFCrx7K3wLxi3Kv7t4f%252FqKbF9p7epyHkUOHiFxKulIIXJlppqP%252FBHHra5ujmEc%252FpBOPMG3ZyiqYqHRgH%252FsL51mP9ZM0Lj2k6TLUfR%252By4QJbu6jl6JrytJo%252FaCRfehbi0SA%252F%252FMNJN6SgVRg0lrmwpGvgXr3vKqinj%252FuGH2MWs%252FQC7%252Bpx0ba%252Fy2RaY9jaqJKlZUcK4zqbJXBYgLK7cnP4cbJ%252Fd6k7dZiU491xKjwKJluzS28cP%252BsQJC%252FL%252FRN7iNwi7l7MPghWVO5HZlrIqbiMgaRTszqHyFbgkaFxaGmAozqVkx3TUbiLQQTbJIi6lslo2e6rZOp3Mrwp%252BwPwDrgutsfVz5XuxE8%252FwJkPn7YGGRsvu%252FmcZdTWeJVC9BEvXtLNHgHo4H%252Bxq2%252FJ%252BfvpyO98%252BLhqnKl0c%252F%252BrdBXWVCisN3Xqj2qkTl7JTYMW%252BMw%253D%7Ccksum%3A1745517823025f869ae4fe4848c0b7c291c89d9ed7a0%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524
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scsshaggy
Big Boy


scsshaggy

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 Posted - May 13 2021 :  11:17:34 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add scsshaggy to Buddylist
quote:
It seems the Brass spur gear is too soft for the steel worm gear.
The spur gear looks to be 12 teeth.
Originally posted by security Manager - May 12 2021 :  10:58:19 PM


It's pretty normal for the worm to be a harder material than the gear. The worm turns 12 times for each time the gear turns, so it gets 12 times the wear. Making it of a harder material evens out the wear.

There appears to be excessive wear on both, and that's because of the lack of lubrication. Metal gears are pretty high friction without any lubrication and they wear out fast.

Carpe Manana!
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Chops124
Big Boy





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 Posted - May 13 2021 :  7:40:46 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Chops124 to Buddylist
As the worm turns. And churns.
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RP model railroads
Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - May 13 2021 :  9:36:18 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
Thank you all for the help.

Shaggy, regarding the other gears that connect to these, they are fine, that being the one on the driver and the other worm-like gear that is connected by shaft to this gear set-up.

Regarding the damaged brass gear, it is approximately 5mm, with the shaft being 3mm - I'm putting this info here for my reference also.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

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RP model railroads
Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - May 25 2021 :  11:09:31 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
Update:

A member of the Rivarossi, Mehano, & IHC Facebook group kindly gave me a gearbox, which should help me get the 2-10-2 running once more, sooner or later.

I do have a question, does anyone have a recommendation for a specific lubricant/grease that works best long-term for metal gears? Plastic gears?

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/rpmodelrailroads

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rp_model_railroads/
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scsshaggy
Big Boy


scsshaggy

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 Posted - May 26 2021 :  08:57:43 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add scsshaggy to Buddylist
quote:
Update:
Does anyone have a recommendation for a specific lubricant/grease that works best long-term for metal gears? Plastic gears?
Originally posted by RP model railroads - May 25 2021 :  11:09:31 PM


I've been using LaBelle 106, which is a PTFE (generic name for Teflon) grease. I know it to be plastic safe and it's designed as a gear grease. It's fairly sticky so it doesn't get thrown off of the gears much.

Carpe Manana!
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RP model railroads
Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - May 26 2021 :  9:12:52 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
quote:
quote:
Update:
Does anyone have a recommendation for a specific lubricant/grease that works best long-term for metal gears? Plastic gears?
Originally posted by RP model railroads - May 25 2021 :  11:09:31 PM


I've been using LaBelle 106, which is a PTFE (generic name for Teflon) grease. I know it to be plastic safe and it's designed as a gear grease. It's fairly sticky so it doesn't get thrown off of the gears much.

Originally posted by scsshaggy-May 26 2021: 08:57:43 AM



Thanks shaggy. I had no idea Labelle made a lubricant like that. I ordered a tube and can't wait to use it.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/rpmodelrailroads

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RP model railroads
Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - August 04 2021 :  8:46:50 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujyNHThLzH0&t=10s

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/rpmodelrailroads

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Chops124
Big Boy





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 Posted - August 04 2021 :  10:34:36 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Chops124 to Buddylist
I cannot believe you got that to work, I'd really thought that was
headed for the junk box. Looks great banging the rails in Ephrata Valley.
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scsshaggy
Big Boy


scsshaggy

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 Posted - August 04 2021 :  11:15:24 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add scsshaggy to Buddylist
That's a good looker and a nice runner. I'm wondering how tight of a turn you've run it on. Rivarossi was good at making them flexible and I wondered if it'd take an 18" radius.
Carpe Manana!
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RP model railroads
Big Boy



DOUBLE NICKEL55

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 Posted - August 08 2021 :  8:49:34 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add RP model railroads to Buddylist
Thanks Chops and Shaggy! Yes, it is a great runner and is quite detailed.

It is able to handle 18'' radius curves with no problem.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16

Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/rpmodelrailroads

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rp_model_railroads/
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Srenchin
Big Boy


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 Posted - November 19 2023 :  8:08:33 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Srenchin to Buddylist
So, long story short, I bought a Rivarossi B&O 2-10-2 steam locomotive last week from Hennings for
cheap, and the price sticker said - "motor runs, won't move." I put it on my test track, and at first thought
the issue was due to a loose rod bolt. Nope. I then proceeded to take it apart (by far the largest steam engine
I've taken apart yet,) and realized that the actual gear itself that makes vertical contact with the gear on one of
the drivers wasn't moving, so I went deeper and discovered something unfortunate. Inside of the gearbox
thingy inside of the boiler shell was a small piece of plastic debris (don't know where it came from) and brass
shavings everywhere. Sure enough, the little brass gear attached to the vertical rod is completely stripped, and
the steel? worm gear it meshes with looked fine at first, but it is also damaged. I guess something caused it to
jam, and the worm gear destroyed the little brass gear....... 0___0

Does anyone know where I can find another one of these little brass gears and a worm gear? Considering that
Rivarossi used the same size drivers on a lot of their steam locomotives, did they also use similar gear set
ups?




Originally posted by RP model railroads - May 09 2021 :  10:56:15 PM

[/quote]

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