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 Posted - September 22 2006 : 7:38:33 PM
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Hey people. I've got a couple of tyco trains on my layout and they aren't all runnin smoothly. I'm hoping you guys can help me.
One of the tyco engines I've got is a Canadiana Alco C430. I bought it and got it fixed but it still has a few problems. On the side of the motor among the plastic gears there is a silver gear. As the train runs, the gear works itself loose and sometimes falls out. Is there anythin I can do to keep this from happenin???
Also I've got a GG1 electric that runs fine once I've got it started but sometimes has trouble startin up. Is this normal??
I've got a shell of an Alco C430. Is there anywhere I can find trucks that'll fit on this??
-Eric
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Posted - September 22 2006 : 8:25:13 PM
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Eric
Brian here. on the gear popping off-you can apply a small amount of lock-tite thread lock to keep on. can purchase at any auto parts store such as Auto-zone-Advance auto or wal-mart. Other alternative is to purchase another tyco loco for motor only and swap out off ebay. Clean your engine wheels and use nickel silver track for best performance if sluggish. apply a drop of oil also on gears and use grease on axles to keep wheels rolling freely. Use only approved oil and grease for model trains. DO NOT USE 3-N-1 OIL. THIS WILL DEFINTLY BURN YOUR MOTOR OUT AS IT IS TO HEAVY. Brian
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Posted - September 22 2006 : 8:40:41 PM
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I'm not totally sure what all those things you mentioned are but I'll look into it and try and figure it out. What exactly is lock-tite thread? As for the track, I think most of mine is brass. I have a couple of nickel pieces of track here and there but thats just till i get somemore brass. I have mostly brass because I'm not really into top of the line trains that cost $100 and buy mainly R-T-R train sets that come with brass tracks. I've heard that brass conducts electricity better so whats the deal with Tyco trains runnin better on nickel?
Plus, the engine seems to run alright when I first start it, but if I stop it and come back a couple hours later it runs really slowly and sometimes doesn't start at all.
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Posted - September 22 2006 : 10:35:37 PM
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| lock-tite is a thread sealant and comes in diffrent strenghts indicated by color of tube. Brass is o.k to use. I do not know of any current manufacture who makes brass track. There is none listed in the walthers catalogue. nickel silver track stays cleaner and is a better conductor over brass though. As far as your engine not wanting to start after running for a while-may be a worn brush or spring in motor which you can not buy replacement for as no one makes it. The tyco GG1 and alco 630 have the same truck. You could purchase a running alco 630 and swap out motors.
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Posted - September 23 2006 : 01:46:43 AM
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My experience with bass track is that once it oxidizes, it's done. A real pain to keep clean. People thought I was nuts but in my secondhand-runner days I used to prefer Tyco's steel track over brass - is was very easy to clean (and looked better too). Not as good an electrical conductor, true... but when you have a small layout that doesn't matter, and it's nothing a decent power pack can't fix.
But you should consider nickel-silver as soon as you can, even trusty ol' steel track pales in comparison. It doesn't get dirty as fast as steel, and isn't shot once it is like brass. Nobody makes brass track anymore that I'm aware of; you still see steel in the cheaper RTR sets. But nickel-silver has been the standard for so long now you may find it cheap second-hand.
As for the powertorque motor - I always had problems with that gear stripping, not falling out. If you don't have any locktite, you can try some nail polish - it should hold just as well and in fact is very similar.
My personal opinion is that if a Tyco Powertorqe has been used to the point where the gears fell off, you got more out of it than most. Which means the rest of it is probably shot elsewhere, and not worth fixing. Don't mean to be harsh but very few will dispute how terrible those motors are. As others have said, your best bet is to find other donors that run and swap parts as needed. But if all it takes is a drop of nail polish - good on ya! [}:)]
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Posted - September 23 2006 : 11:06:42 AM
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Well, I got all of my brass track from President's Coice train sets that are only availible in two Canadian Grocery stores. They have made ten different sets since 1992 and as far as I know they havent changed anything about the sets since they started. Thats probably why the sets still come with brass rails and horn hook couplers.
And regarding the nail polish, where exactly do I need to put the nail polish on the gear?? I have a fleischmann engine that experiences the same problem with one of its metal gears, so I'm wonderin if this problem is common among old train engines.
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Posted - September 23 2006 : 4:05:21 PM
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OK, I'm not 100% sure which gear you're referring to, but I'll assume it's the smallest one, on the end of the motor amrature shaft. (I'm imagining seeing the other thinner gears in other colors, which is why I'm not 100%. But that small gear is most definitely silver).
At any rate, the procedure should be the same on all of them. If you can get the gear back onto the shaft, nice and centerd like it should be, then all you need to do is take a drop or two of nail polish and place it over the end of the shaft. Nail polish is a hard durable enamel and will dry rock hard, and should prevent the gear from working itself loose again. I only suggest nail polish because it's a cheaper, more common household item than loc-tite, but loc-tite would also work in this case.
Were you actually threading screws, I would NOT use nail polish. But you can use nail polish across the head of a mounted screw to keep it in place. In fact, take a look at the wiring on the power trucks on a LL or Bachmann engine sometime.
If it continues to come loose (face it- it's spinning against other gears under tension so it may yet happen), then stick a fork in it...
Edited by - GoingInCirclez on September 23 2006 4:08:00 PM
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Posted - September 23 2006 : 5:00:52 PM
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On my Tyco engine, as far as I can tell, there is only one metal gear. All the rest are plastic. It looks like this is the first gear that turns all the rest. When it falls off its easy enough to get back on.
I'm still a little confused on the nail polish. Do I want to put this on the end of the silver rod that the gear is on so the end of the axle is slightly wider and the gear won't come off, or do I want the polish to actually hold the gear to the rod??
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Posted - September 23 2006 : 7:54:14 PM
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quote:I'm still a little confused on the nail polish. Do I want to put this on the end of the silver rod that the gear is on so the end of the axle is slightly wider and the gear won't come off, or do I want the polish to actually hold the gear to the rod??
Originally posted by DaCheez - September 23 2006 : 10:00:52 PM
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The second one :) Although, if the gear really is that loose otherwise, your first idea has merit. But, it might be harder to get "just enough" to do the job on there.
I would put the gear on, add a drop of nail polish on top, then spin the gear on the axle for a second or two to get some of the nail polish to work inside. But the polish isn't really a bonding agent - primarily you want it to make a barrier to keep the gear spinning and popping off the axle. I hope that makes sense.
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Posted - September 23 2006 : 8:05:53 PM
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| Ya that makes sense. The weird thing about this part though is that on one side of the gear it is totally flat. You can't actually see the teeth if you look at it from the one side because on that one side its completely cirrcular. It kinda like its sposed to go in so that the flat part is on the inside and the big plastic gear next to it holds it in place. I've tried takin it out and flipping it around but that just made the plastic gear come loose and pop off. Maybe I didn't put the plastic gear back on right but it sure looked right.
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Posted - September 23 2006 : 8:26:24 PM
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The flat/circular part is on the outside; the teeth are against the motor housing. I just looked at one of my running powertorques to make sure.
If installing the motor gear properly makes the large drive gear that it meshes with come off, perhpas that plastic drive gear has been reinstalled backwards? It has a raised inner portion on the outside that I
can see... if it were flipped around, that raised portion would add enough thickness on the inside to cause problems and perhaps make you need to flip the motor gear...
LOL here I am always bashing powertorques and yet spending time trying to assist in their repair... oh the irony...
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Posted - September 23 2006 : 8:41:38 PM
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Here's a picture to help:
The "raised area" on the drive gear can be made out if you look at where the grease has built up against it. I don't know if it's the same way on the back side. That's the gear that always seems to strip. This particular drive still runs, but the traction tires are shot so it doesn't get very far.
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Posted - September 23 2006 : 8:45:42 PM
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I just turned the two gears around to test them out and see if the guys at the hobby shop had put the gears back on backwards when I had it fixed.
The powertorques are kinda crappy but they do run. And where I live there's usually only 2 or 3 train shows each year, so I take whatever Tyco stuff I can get.
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Posted - September 23 2006 : 10:40:31 PM
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DaCheez:
Might I suggest when attending your local shows to look for your favorite Tyco 430s and EMDs equipped with the old gimballed mu power trucks developed by Tyco in the late '50s. They were used by Tyco into the early 1970s on EMDs, Geeps and the big Alco Centurys. You'll fund they are infinitely more reliable and far less headache-inducing than Power Torque motors. Those "Deluxe" Tyco offerings we've been reading so much about--like GoinginCirclz super-pretty 430 in GN Big Sky--as well as most Mantuas from the late seventies 'til the can motor era use that tried and tru old power truck. If you like running your Tycos instead of constantly tearing them down for repair they are a very viable solution.
for what its worth...
Magnolia Academy
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Posted - September 28 2006 : 8:25:12 PM
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Up here in Canada I don't think as many Tyco items were sold so they're a little bit harder to find. I'm only turnin 14 in november so I don't know what those old engines your talkin about look like.
As far as I can tell the motor in my C430 still runs fine except for the gear. But like I said before this isnt my only engine that has a loose gear.
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Posted - September 28 2006 : 9:12:04 PM
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The original Tyco MU-truck diesels would be the GP-20 (5628 road#) and C430 (4301), and the F7/9.
The Super C630*, plastic Sharknose, and SD24 were only offered with the powertorque.
You can differntiate the drives easily - the good motors are metal framed and riveted at the bottom, while the cheaper powertorque versions have screws to hold the truck covers in place.
The older ones run MUCH better and stronger.
* The very first C630s had a center motor with two driveshafts coming out of the fuel tank into the trucks; I found and passed one a few years ago before I knew its significance. Very rare indeed.
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