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 Posted - October 11 2019 : 7:47:06 PM
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Good evening all,
So, I just received an awesome early Brown Box Era Tyco Steam Locomotive in the mail today that I purchased at a good price off of Ebay (not going to reveal the type just yet  ) however, I am having a major issue. For some reason, my steamer will barely run - it crawls along the track even at the highest speeds, and is prone to just stalling. All of the contacts are fairly clean, I lubricated the gears and pistons, and even tried adding magnets to the back of the motor, but all to no avail.
Any help/advice would be appreciated.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Edited by - toptrain on October 29 2019 07:02:58 AM
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Posted - October 11 2019 : 8:05:09 PM
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Have you tried running it in? Sometimes that does the trick, especially if it's been sitting in a box for a few years. I would recommend trying to run it for about 30 minutes so everything can start working together properly again. That's assuming, of course, you haven't already tried that which, if you've already tried, I'm not totally sure what else you could do based on the information you've given so far.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on October 11 2019 8:07:45 PM
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Posted - October 11 2019 : 11:22:26 PM
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quote:Have you tried running it in? Sometimes that does the trick, especially if it's been sitting in a box for a few years. I would recommend trying to run it for about 30 minutes so everything can start working together properly again.That's assuming, of course, you haven't already tried that which, if you've already tried, I'm not totally sure what else you could do based on the information you've given so far.
Originally posted by kovacste000Â -Â October 11 2019Â :Â 8:05:09 PM
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I ran it for at least 30 minutes it seemed....but it only got worse....I'll try again tomorrow.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - October 11 2019 : 11:57:18 PM
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Does the motor get really hot?
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - October 12 2019 : 01:14:33 AM
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Did you lubricate the axle bearings and the driver rod screws? If the axle bearings are dry,
that could cause the slow crawl and stall.
If that doesn't correct the problem, try removing the boiler and motor and push the frame
and drivers along a straight piece of track and see if the drivers are all properly quartered.
Edited by - oldtimer52 on October 12 2019 01:16:43 AM
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Posted - October 12 2019 : 09:57:42 AM
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The two Tyco Pacifics I've encountered, one I own, work beautifully. Let
us know how it goes.
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Posted - October 12 2019 : 9:05:11 PM
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I did lubricate the axle bearings and driver rod screws also, but no luck with that.
Worked an 11 hour shift today - on an insane Saturday morning at Dunkin'...exhausted. Will get to the locomotive tomorrow.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - October 13 2019 : 8:52:42 PM
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I suspect the problem is the power pick-up from your locomotive's tender,
I have had several Mantua steamers with the same problem.
Try running your locomotive at full throttle for a few minutes and then check
to see if the journals on the tender's trucks feel warm to the touch. If this is
so, the electrical current from the rails is meeting resistance where the tender
wheelset's needle point axles interface with the truck side frames.
To solve this problem you will need to add phosphor bronze wheel or axle wipers to
provide proper electrical contact so that electrical current can pass freely from
the tender's wheels to the tender frame.
The photos above show how I modified my tender trucks, the phosphor bronze axle
wipers I used for this modification were made by Tomar but any phosphor bronze stock would
work.
Good Luck
Proudly keeping Tyco Pluggers out of landfills since 2016
Edited by - Srenchin on October 13 2019 9:31:38 PM
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Posted - October 13 2019 : 10:03:19 PM
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Just ran my....okay...gonna reveal it...Tyco Pennsylvania RR "Mikado" 2-8-2 tonight, and even after 30 minutes of running, the speed barely improved. I lubed up a few more joints, and instead, the motor just got hotter and hotter, as well as the contact screw-points on the tender wire.
Running out of options now.... Srenchin, that makes complete sense - Thanks! Will add "axle wipers" to my wanted list.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - October 13 2019 : 11:41:58 PM
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Srenchin, no doubt, has the best solution. I've done that before,
with mixed success, on different pieces.
Before going down that road, would it make sense to
just give all the contacts a good old cleaning and
greasing, first?
One dumb question, any chance that any or all of the
tender truck wheels are insulated on one side only
and are flipped thereby causing a low grade short??
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Posted - October 14 2019 : 7:55:59 PM
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quote:Srenchin, no doubt, has the best solution. I've done that before,
with mixed success, on different pieces.
Before going down that road, would it make sense to
just give all the contacts a good old cleaning and
greasing, first?
One dumb question, any chance that any or all of the
tender truck wheels are insulated on one side only
and are flipped thereby causing a low grade short??
Originally posted by Chops124Â -Â October 13 2019Â :Â 11:41:58 PM
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That is a good suggestion Chops, be sure to check that all the wheelsets are
oriented properly!
Proudly keeping Tyco Pluggers out of landfills since 2016
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Posted - October 14 2019 : 9:43:50 PM
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UPDATE:
Yep, I checked all of the contact wheels and they are aligned properly (on the correct side.) I took Srenchin's suggestion and added some copper contact pieces to both tender trucks, which did improve performance a bit (even the headlight got brighter.) However, after it runs on full power for about 15 minutes, the powerpack starts to get hot, as does the locomotive, and it begins to get slower over time. I should add that it will not run on any power above "90 mph" on my Tyco powerpack, which is basically full-blast, and sometimes it still will not move (requiring a hand-push to get it going.)
While analyzing my "Mikado" a bit more tonight, I discovered one of the rods was bent in....I bent it back out, but that did seemingly nothing.
Now what should I do? I did notice some hair wrapped around the drive-axle (above the worm gear)...perhaps that is causing the trouble.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - October 14 2019 : 10:50:54 PM
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The motor getting hotter and hotter, while the power pack and the wire to the tender also heat up suggests a whole lot of amperage through the motor.
Some possibilities come to mind:
1) Something's not moving freely - If you remove the motor and just push the locomotive down the tracks do all the wheels, connecting rods, etc. move freely? Does the motor turn freely? Do the worm and the gear on the axle mesh properly? The hair around the drive axle sounds suspiciously like this problem.
2) A motor winding is a bit shorted - if the lacquer on the windings is damaged, it could be that the power is not going through all the wire and the shortened circuit is heating up. Might be good to look at the motor windings and see if anything looks scorched.
3) The motor magnet is weak - A strong magnetic field will give the motor more torque and a lower current draw. A weak magnetic field will reduce torque and increase current draw, meaning more heat and less power. I know you mentioned adding magnets, but that has to be done so that the north pole of the old magnet and the additional magnets point the same way, in which case the added magnet will want to jump off of the motor. If they're pointing the opposite way, the added magnet will stick, and the field of force will be diverted through it, rather than through the motor. Anyway, try touching something steel to the back of the motor and see if it feels wimpy.
Do you have any other Mantua steam engines with which you could temporarily swap the motors and see if the problem persists?
Carpe Manana!
Edited by - scsshaggy on October 14 2019 10:52:59 PM
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Posted - October 15 2019 : 9:15:12 PM
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LOL, I like that nickname Chops: "Mike" the Mikado.
No, unfortunately I don't have another Mantua/Tyco steam locomotive I could easily remove another motor from.
Anyhow...I accessed the motor tonight, and the actual copper wiring windings look pristine, therefore the motor is quite healthy. Upon trying to rotate the motor with my hands, it was a little rough, so I lubed-up both bearings, which worked great. I then removed the hair wrapped around the drive axle and reassembled everything.....to get the same performance as after adding the contacts in the tender trucks - no better/no worse.
I then decided to test the magnet, and sure enough, it is weaker then I expected, as compared to other Tyco MU-2 style motor locomotives I have. Now I'll begin hunting for new, stronger magnets that hopefully will improve performance.
Here's a shot before I removed the hair....
scsshaggy: So, correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying that if I do add an additional magnet, I need to ensure that the same poles touch (hence they will not want to stick together?) How could I attach the 2nd magnet then
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - October 15 2019 : 11:28:43 PM
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I order rare earth magnets from K&J Magnetics:
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/
Then I pull the old magnet out of the motor and replace it entirely with the rare earth magnet.
The cheapest route is the B848 magnet which is 1/2" high by 1/2" long by 1/4" wide.
It's equivalent to using a stack of 4 B842 magnets (Each 1/8" high by 1/2" long by 1/4" wide).
For a little stronger field, you could use a stack of 4 B842-N52 magnets. They're the same size as the B842, but a bit more powerful. They cost a few cents more, but the Mike's a big engine, so maybe more powerful is good.
In my Mikado, I put in a B888-2PA-N52 (1/2" x 1/2" x 1/2" with a hole through the poles). I ran the screw at the back of the motor through the hole. It's a lot of torque, but it's a bit noisy. I think it's a combination of factors. The bearings in my particular motor might be a bit worn. Combine that with the vibration of the motor windings popping in and out of that intense field, and it whines a bit when it runs. If your motor is the kind with a rivet in the back rather than a screw, never mind this magnet it won't fit.
If you stack magnets, they'll want to stack together the way they should. You want the poles of the magnet at the top and bottom of the motor. Sideways will do no good. If you get it all together and the engine goes backwards when you expect it to go forward, flip the magnet over.
The magnetism, itself, will hold the magnets within the motor.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - October 16 2019 : 11:29:30 AM
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If your motor has a rivet instead of a screw, just drill the rivet out - it doesn't require a lot of work.
Remove the old magnet and slide in the new one. The magnet itself will hold the whole thing together securely. I used the type of K&J N52 magnet shaggy mentioned. 1/2"x1/2"x1/2" with the hole through the middle (although the hole turned out to be unnecessary, but handy because it was drilled in line with the polarity.
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Posted - October 16 2019 : 5:31:03 PM
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| Getting schooled here.
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Posted - October 16 2019 : 9:16:05 PM
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Awesome - thanks so much for the info scsshaggy and Crown Vic! I think I'll purchase the B888-2PA-N52 (1/2" x 1/2" x 1/2" with a hole through the poles) magnet, as it sounds like the perfect one.
In regards to whether my Mikado has a screw or rivet in the back of the motor, I'll have to check.
[b]Just checked...it does have a rivet. I'll still continue researching on magnets though
How about these:https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Neodymium-1-2-x-1-2-x-1-2-N52-Magnets-Super-Strong-
It's only $20 for 10 of these 1/2'' x 1/2'' x 1/2'' N52 magnets...the same exact size and shape as the B888-2PA-N52 from the website. These should work, right?
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/rpmodelrailroads
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rp_model_railroads/
Edited by - toptrain on February 10 2020 07:55:31 AM
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Posted - October 17 2019 : 11:15:03 AM
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quote:It's only $20 for 10 of these 1/2'' x 1/2'' x 1/2'' N52 magnets...the same exact size and shape as the B888-2PA-N52 from the website. These should work, right?
Originally posted by RP model railroads - October 16 2019 : 9:16:05 PM
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Yep, those should work fine.
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Posted - October 17 2019 : 7:04:44 PM
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quote: quote:It's only $20 for 10 of these 1/2'' x 1/2'' x 1/2'' N52 magnets...the same exact size and shape as the B888-2PA-N52 from the website. These should work, right?
Originally posted by RP model railroads - October 16 2019 : 9:16:05 PM
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Yep, those should work fine.
Originally posted by Crown Vic - October 17 2019 : 11:15:03 AM
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Great! Will be ordering them pronto.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - October 25 2019 : 10:33:27 PM
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Finally received the magnets in the mail today, and got right to work tonight.
I first tried to be lazy and just attach the magnet to the present magnet - and it did nothing (as expected.)
I then proceeded to unscrew everything, and using a metal bit, drilled-out the rivet holding the old magnet in place, removed the rivet, and installed one of the brand-new earth magnet "cubes." I then re-assembled the Mikado, put it on the rails, and low & behold, it ran a LOT better. However, it was running in reverse when it should have been running forward, so I disassembled everything again, and switched the magnet poles around. Problem solved.
Unfortunately, the light bulb wire got disconnected somewhere in the 1st disassembly process, so if anyone could please tell me where that wire goes, I would greatly appreciate it.
I will definitely publish a video of my Mikado running on RETRO TYCO II sometime soon, so stay tuned!
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/rpmodelrailroads
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rp_model_railroads/
Edited by - RP model railroads on October 25 2019 10:34:31 PM
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Posted - October 29 2019 : 2:36:32 PM
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scsshaggy gave me the answer on how to properly wire the lightbulb back in. I will get to that ASAP, and then I will create a vid, so stay tuned. :D
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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