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 Posted - February 10 2015 : 10:42:15 PM
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I picked up a Lionel HO scale FA at a thrift store. I have no experience with Lionel HO.
I took the shell off and found the motor and driveshaft bouncing around loose. I
cleaned it, lubed it, put it back together, and when you put it on the track the power
light goes dim on the transformer and the overload light comes on. I do not know
if the loco ran before. Electrically it's pretty simple-two wires coming off the motor
for the headlight, one wire going to a copper strip that seems to rub against the
backs of two of the wheels on the left side of the front truck. The motor clipping
into the metal chassis seems to be the only other electrical pathway. Any ideas
on wha's the issue? Headlight dos not come on and loco does nothing - no hum
or signs of life.
Edited by - a6m5zerosen on February 12 2015 11:39:14 PM
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Posted - February 11 2015 : 08:16:08 AM
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First thing you need to do is reduce the problem to it's component parts. Pull the motor out of the chassis, lay it on something insulated, and hook up power directly to the motor wire inputs to see if it'll run. If it runs, it's the chassis causing the problem. A shorted light bulb will also cause the no-run condition, too. Bulbs DO short out, not just open when bad. Check to see if the axles and wheels have the insulated sides on opposite sides for each truck. One truck has them on one side, the other truck on the opposite rail side. Another common problem, people take the trucks apart to lube them, then get the axles in backwards, causing a short.
The bulb could have the wires soldered backwards, causing a short. Having a multi-meter is very handy for this, as you can see if one side of the chassis is shorted to the other with the resistance setting. You can also make a simple "bug light", ie get a light bulb, two 1.5 volt batteries, and some wire, and check across the rail circuit to see if anything is shorted. Bug lights are very cheap, and easy to use. Radio Shack still sells them, if you can find one still open. I use one at work for simple mechanical circuit checks. Worth adding to your toolbox, if you can't afford a multi-meter.
That's about it - bulb, axle swap, wiring reversed, motor bad, chassis short. Not much else to check for. Lionel engines aren't that much different than others. Let us know what you find.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - February 11 2015 : 10:48:29 AM
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Question?
Is one of the wheel set in backwards?
I Think the insulators need to be on the side with the wipers.
Regards, John
“In philosophy, or religion, or ethics, or politics, two and two might make five, but when one was designing a gun or an aeroplane they had to make four.” <> George Orwell, 1984
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Posted - February 11 2015 : 6:21:27 PM
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I thank you both for your advice and expertise. I did not remove the wheels and axles,
so they are in the same configuration as when I got it. I foolishly assumed that the
reason it di not run was that the motor and driveshaft were bouncing around loose
in the locomotive shell not hooked to anything...
Edited by - a6m5zerosen on February 12 2015 11:40:00 PM
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Posted - February 11 2015 : 7:23:57 PM
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quote:I did not remove the wheels and axles, so they are in the same configuration as when I got it.
Originally posted by a6m5zerosen - February 11 2015 : 6:21:27 PM
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You haven't changed the configuration, but was it right when you got it? No one's perfect, not even the previous owners. 
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - February 11 2015 : 8:27:39 PM
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quote:Question?
Is one of the wheel set in backwards?
I Think the insulators need to be on the side with the wipers.
Regards, John
Originally posted by JRG1951 - February 11 2015 : 10:48:29 AM
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Ding! Ding! Ding! I think we have a winner with that suggestion! I see it now, good eye, John! I believe thats' the problem right there. Reversed axle. I didn't notice it myself the first look at the picture, but I see it <clearly> now. one looks reversed.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - February 11 2015 : 9:01:32 PM
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quote:I thank you both for your advice and expertise. I did not remove the wheels and axles, so they are in the same configuration as when I got it. I foolishly assumed that the reason it di not run was that the motor and driveshaft were bouncing around loose in the locomotive shell not hooked to anything...
Originally posted by a6m5zerosen - February 11 2015 : 6:21:27 PM
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Well, that certainly was ONE reason  and the only fool is whoever put them that way in the first place through what means we can only guess at... in any case, flip the axle and tell us if that cures it!
--CRC
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Posted - February 11 2015 : 9:36:20 PM
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Well, after a fun adventure educating myself on how the truck comes apart I managed to
flip one wheelset around and now I'm halfway there. If you put the loco on the track and
lift the rear truclk off the rails, the motor runs like a madman, the headlight lights up, and
the driveshaft spins the wheelsets on the rear truck perfectly...until you set the rear truck
on the rails, then dead short and an overload light. Any chance the guy who had this
apart before has both rear wheelsets in backwards also? The black plastic wheels
with traction tires are on the right side of the locomotive, and the brass wheelsets
are on the left side.
Edited by - a6m5zerosen on February 12 2015 11:41:17 PM
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Posted - February 11 2015 : 10:39:57 PM
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quote:Well, after a fun adventure educating myself on how the truck comes apart I managed to flip one wheelset around and now I'm halfway there.Any chance the guy who had this apart before has both rear wheelsets in backwards also?
Originally posted by a6m5zerosen - February 11 2015 : 9:36:20 PM
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I suspect the culprit didn't watch what he was doing, and just reinstalled the wheels with no clue that they had to be a certain way. I suspect both sets may need to be turned around. Holding up one end is a good diagnostic, as it proves the other end also has a short. So flip those around so the brass wheels have the contacts going to them, which they probably don't, and all should be well.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - February 12 2015 : 11:12:47 AM
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Not to kick a dead horse but.
Here is a diagram of what the wiring may look like. Even if the back truck does not have a wiper, the insulators on the wheels need to all be on the same side.
Regards, John
Edited by - JRG1951 on February 12 2015 1:44:34 PM
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Posted - February 12 2015 : 6:52:11 PM
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I like the cartoon about the perfume that smells like model glue. It's funnier still when one remembers that, at one point, they started adding oil of mustard as a chemical irritant to stop you from breathing the fumes before they overcome you.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - February 12 2015 : 11:38:26 PM
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All done-I swapped the rear wheelsets around, replaced the broken Lionel couplers
with some old Tyco couplers from the spares box, and now it runs like a madman.
Many thanks for all the help, guys-much appreciated.
Edited by - a6m5zerosen on February 12 2015 11:42:20 PM
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Posted - February 13 2015 : 10:38:26 AM
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Glad to hear it's back in service! It amazes me how many times I've bought a locomotive not running, and it turns out that it's such a simple thing like reversed axles that was the problem. I guess many people aren't aware of the insulated/non-insulated axle design, and just put them back together any which way. It's not a complex thing,but there are different voltage pick-up patterns - insulated axles on the same side, both trucks, insulated axles on opposing sides, different trucks, and even the same truck having opposing axles due to single-truck power pick-up, so one axle insulated is on the opposite side of the other in the same truck. It's not rocket science, but you do have to look at the design to figure it out. Usually it's that, or a broken wire inside the shell, that keeps it from running.
I bought a Lionel HO steam engine a few years ago at a show, the Southern Daylight version, the guy said Don't run it, it will burn up! It had a melted spot on the side of the shell. I got it and the tender for $5 both. I took it home, took it apart - the motor shafts were bone dry, the armature would barely turn by hand. I put some oil on both ends, and let it soak, after a few minutes, I tried it, it powered right up and ran fine. I had a fellow hobbiest that does detailing "fix" the shell with a patch, and paint to match, like it was a boiler explosion and the patch was welded on and repainted. Looks good! And runs fine. Just some basic maintenance needed was all. Silly stuff. 
Anyway, nice job, and a quick fix for your Lionel engine.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - February 13 2015 : 11:45:53 AM
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 I had a similar issue with my late 1950's Mantua Pacific when I first got it. Somebody flipped the front truck, making it harder for the locomotive to navigate curves period, which meant that it was basically useless on my home layout until we found out what the problem was. We flipped it around and yeah, it worked great. So yeah, I know how that feels most definitely.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on February 13 2015 11:48:31 AM
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