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 Posted - September 09 2014 : 1:15:11 PM
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I looked and I could not find a previous thread dedicated to ONLY Varney locomotives, so I thought I would start one.
Therefore... this is a thread dedicated to solely Varney HO scale steam locomotives, (or O scale if you have them).
Ill start periodically posting some photos of engines in my personal collection and anyone else is please join in with a picture of your own Varney locomotive... steam or diesel.... Sure! Why not?
I'll start with probably one of the most popular and common Varney steam locomotives... The 0-4-0 lil Joe B&O Dockside #98:
Sean
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Posted - September 09 2014 : 2:22:15 PM
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Sean; that looks like a loco I got from western Pennsylvania. Thanks again.
frank
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Posted - September 09 2014 : 2:39:05 PM
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oooo nice loco 
I want one! 
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Posted - September 09 2014 : 7:19:43 PM
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Here is an example of a Varney 2-6-0 "Super" Consolidation steam locomotive. The Super" line was equipped with a sprung chassis and it used the Varney V-2 motor.
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - September 09 2014 : 8:26:00 PM
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The detail on those Varney locos are excellent. I mean, come on, that Varney Super Consolidation looks almost as good as a modern super detailed loco. Just needs a couple extra things like weathering and those things really pop. Of course, this is based off of what I've seen across the internet.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - September 10 2014 : 09:10:45 AM
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This Economy 4-6-2 Pacific was purchased with the same collection as the Consolidation above. The "Economy" line was introduced the same time as the "Super" line. Both lines were introduced sometime ~1952 and were equipped with screw-on notched drivers. Makes for very easy quartering and repair. The major differences between the two being...
The Economy line:
Equipped with a standard Pittman motor (DC71 I think)
The chassis was constructed & machined from a single piece brass C-channel.
The drivers were not sprung.
The pilot deck (not cow catcher) was made from reforming one end of the C-channel. The cow catcher mounts to this.
The Super line:
Equipped with a Lindsay/Varney motor V-2 Motor
The chassis was constructed from multiple pieces of brass flat stock & machined brass rods.
The drivers were sprung two custom springs which had one very long end that traveled down each frame rail. It was tied to the frame rail at the front and rear of the frame rails. The driver axles rested against this giving the spring action when pressure was applied. .
The pilot deck (not cow catcher) was made from a die cast zimax part which was textured to llok like deck plate and it straddled the two ends of the brass frame pieces. It is sandwich held in place by two screws which mount a diecast plate on the underside of the frame members. The cow catcher mounts to this.
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - September 10 2014 : 10:42:36 AM
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The Varney 4-8-4 Northern. Most were the Economy line. I have seen some being of the "Super" line, but I have never owned a complete one. I do have a Super model of my own with everything but the V-2 motor. The HOseeker website has depicted some very nice examples of both the economy & super lines. Both are/were owned by a good friend of mine.
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - September 10 2014 : 11:05:23 AM
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what are the curtains made of? 
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Posted - September 10 2014 : 11:49:53 AM
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Varney NW2 diesel. Cast metal body, over-under gear drive power truck.
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
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Posted - September 10 2014 : 12:05:29 PM
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quote:Varney NW2 diesel. Cast metal body, over-under gear drive power truck.
Originally posted by NC shortlines - September 10 2014 : 11:49:53 AM
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Nice addition Paul! I don't have any that are photographed from my collection. I think I did paint one for each New Haven & B&M, but they are both packed away.
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
Edited by - Mustangs_n_Trains on September 10 2014 12:06:05 PM
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Posted - September 10 2014 : 8:36:06 PM
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This is an Economy Line Varney 2-8-4 Brekshire. I restored this locomotive about a year or so ago:
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - September 10 2014 : 8:36:40 PM
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Thanks, Sean. Here is my other Varney locomotive, a 4-6-0.
Currently it is undergoing restoration/customizing.
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Posted - September 10 2014 : 8:39:49 PM
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This is the Varney Streamlined 4-6-2 Pacific. The boiler was sand cast in brass.
The tender was made from wood.
The passenger cars were all wood as well. I was lucky enough to find this complete set. The tenders are very rare!
Sean
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Posted - September 10 2014 : 8:40:43 PM
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quote:what are the curtains made of?
Originally posted by microbusss - September 10 2014 : 11:05:23 AM
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They were made from a tissue type material Ben.
Sean
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Posted - September 10 2014 : 8:42:38 PM
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This is the Varney 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone. They are very rare and highly sought after. I have at least two, but neither are fully constructed. I've got some time yet I guess....
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - September 10 2014 : 8:50:00 PM
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quote:
That is a beautiful set, Sean. Love those passenger cars.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - September 11 2014 : 10:36:07 AM
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quote:Thanks, Sean. Here is my other Varney locomotive, a 4-6-0.
Currently it is undergoing restoration/customizing.
Originally posted by NC shortlines - September 10 2014 : 8:36:40 PM
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Looks like that Casey Jones needs a little tlc! Not a bad price though! $10. Any thoughts of making it into one like the Gorre & Daphetid #49.
Here is recreation of #49 a Japanese friend (Kenichi Matsumoto) of mine built...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/57293605@N07/10968800614
Kenighi was one of the co-editors of the Brown Book on Brass. The picture is posted on another mutual friend's flickr account.
Sean
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Posted - September 11 2014 : 11:15:35 AM
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Here are three more examples of the Varney 2-8-4 Berkshire.
The top one is the standard "Economy" Line with a painted aluminum shell and the standard vandi tender.
The middle one is a non-painted model with the less common, but typical plastic shelled tender which was actually issued with this kit.
The bottom model is the brass shelled version with the "Super" line chassis.
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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 Posted - September 11 2014 : 11:34:45 AM
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what you needs Sean is the Varney catalog I got hehe
Edited by - microbusss on September 11 2014 11:38:05 AM
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Posted - September 11 2014 : 11:51:26 AM
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quote:what you needs Sean is the Varney catalog I got hehe
Originally posted by microbusss - September 11 2014 : 11:34:45 AM
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I have a couple different Varney catalogs Ben!
Sean
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waw47
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Posted - September 11 2014 : 12:02:33 PM
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Sean
Varney never produced a Super Berkshire Locomotive. What you have is an excellent kit-bash.
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Posted - September 11 2014 : 12:47:28 PM
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quote:Sean
Varney never produced a Super Berkshire Locomotive. What you have is an excellent kit-bash.
Originally posted by waw47Â -Â September 11 2014Â :Â 12:02:33 PM
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You may be right Bill, I don't know. I was not around then. I was told from a friend who owns one that the "Super" Northerns were not cataloged. It would not be surprising to me to find other non-cataloged models. I don't have much faith in John David Spanagel's book "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains". John David Spanagel himself purchased this heavily altered Varney lil Joe off of me sometime back in 2006-2007 and when he received it, he emailed me saying it was actually a Mantua Goat! I about croaked! This was the author of the book on Varney telling me an engine with clearly Varney origins was a Mantua! I personally took that engine apart, cleaned it up, got it working and put it back together myself. There was nothing Mantua about it! It was all Varney. I have almost 100 Varney lil Joes in my collection. I know them like the back of my hand!
I was also told Mantua never actually produced their Mountain Mechanism kits, yet I have three examples and two have their original / labeled boxes. Who today really know what went on back then? We weren't there! There is no way for me to conclude either way what did or did not come from the factory. All I can do is assume you are right, but with an * next to it I guess?
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - September 11 2014 : 5:13:17 PM
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quote:
Looks like that Casey Jones needs a little tlc! Not a bad price though! $10. Any thoughts of making it into one like the Gorre & Daphetid #49.
Here is recreation of #49 a Japanese friend (Kenichi Matsumoto) of mine built...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/57293605@N07/10968800614
Kenighi was one of the co-editors of the Brown Book on Brass. The picture is posted on another mutual friend's flickr account.
Originally posted by Mustangs_n_Trains - September 11 2014 : 10:36:07 AM
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The Gorre&Daphetid would be a nice project but, I sometimes try to do too much with these kitbashes. So, I decided to do a paint job with just a few minor details added. Something like this loco:
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Posted - September 11 2014 : 10:07:25 PM
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quote: quote:Sean
Varney never produced a Super Berkshire Locomotive. What you have is an excellent kit-bash.
Originally posted by waw47Â -Â September 11 2014Â :Â 12:02:33 PM
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You may be right Bill, I don't know. I was not around then. I was told from a friend who owns one that the "Super" Northerns were not cataloged.
I was also told Mantua never actually produced their Mountain Mechanism kits, yet I have three examples and two have their original / labeled boxes.
Originally posted by Mustangs_n_Trains - September 11 2014 : 12:47:28 PM
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Just as a basic logical principle, if you say a thing is not, it only takes one example to prove you wrong.
If you say a thing is, it only takes one example to prove you right. I tend to use "not" with fear and trembling.
quote:
Originally posted by Mustangs_n_Trains - September 11 2014 : 12:47:28 PM
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Sean, that' a really cool little locomotive. Must have been hard to part with.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - September 11 2014 : 10:23:58 PM
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Very cool little locomotive Sean....I don't think I could paint it if I had it, all the details make it look like artwork.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 11:15:44 AM
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quote:
I have a couple different Varney catalogs Ben!
Originally posted by Mustangs_n_Trains - September 11 2014 : 11:51:26 AM
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Do you have the 4th printing?
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waw47
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 12:24:51 PM
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quote: quote: quote:Sean
Varney never produced a Super Berkshire Locomotive. What you have is an excellent kit-bash.
Originally posted by waw47Â -Â September 11 2014Â :Â 12:02:33 PM
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You may be right Bill, I don't know. I was not around then. I was told from a friend who owns one that the "Super" Northerns were not cataloged.
I was also told Mantua never actually produced their Mountain Mechanism kits, yet I have three examples and two have their original / labeled boxes.
Originally posted by Mustangs_n_Trains - September 11 2014 : 12:47:28 PM
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Just as a basic logical principle, if you say a thing is not, it only takes one example to prove you wrong.
If you say a thing is, it only takes one example to prove you right. I tend to use "not" with fear and trembling.
quote:
Originally posted by Mustangs_n_Trains - September 11 2014 : 12:47:28 PM
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Sean, that' a really cool little locomotive. Must have been hard to part with.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - September 11 2014 : 10:07:25 PM
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 12:48:18 PM
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Thanks Don!
It sold for almost $200 or a little more? So... at that price, I was happy to see it go!
quote:
Sean, that' a really cool little locomotive. Must have been hard to part with.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - September 11 2014 : 10:07:25 PM
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Here are some more shots of the loco. I actually pulled it out of the scrap heap and added ALL the extra detail, including the Valve gear.
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
Edited by - Mustangs_n_Trains on September 12 2014 12:50:02 PM
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 12:57:24 PM
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That lil joe sort of resembles another Varney loco I have. This fanciful consolidation:
It is a pre-war model with a leaf-sprung all diecast chassis.
Sean
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waw47
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 1:14:24 PM
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Scsshaggy
For my statement " Varney never produced a Super Berkshire Locomotive" to be proven incorrect, someone would need to find one of the following: 1) a catalog listing, 2) an example of one in the original box, 3) an advertisement for one 4) a Varney order sheet listing one. I have never seen any of the above in over 35 years of collecting Vintage HO. There is no mention of one in Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains.
A hobbyist of average ability could easily build a Super Varney Berkshire from stock Varney parts. You start with a Super Varney Mikado, change the trailing truck and add some detail parts.
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 1:50:05 PM
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quote:Scsshaggy
For my statement " Varney never produced a Super Berkshire Locomotive" to be proven incorrect, someone would need to find one of the following: 1) a catalog listing, 2) an example of one in the original box, 3) an advertisement for one 4) a Varney order sheet listing one. I have never seen any of the above in over 35 years of collecting Vintage HO. There is no mention of one in Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains.
A hobbyist of average ability could easily build a Super Varney Berkshire from stock Varney parts. You start with a Super Varney Mikado, change the trailing truck and add some detail parts.
Originally posted by waw47Â -Â September 12 2014Â :Â 1:14:24 PM
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I guess what Scsshaggy and I are saying Bill, is in order for your statement to also be correct, something definitive stating as such from Mr. Gordon Varney or any other principal who was in charge of production and or marketing at the time would have to make that statement or have produce evidence proving it to be correct. Since all of the principal members of the company are no longer alive, it is doubtful anyone of them will ever be able to be asked. It would be nice to see if anyone has any of the company records, but I doubt any of that has survived either.
I guess what I am saying is your statement would be better if it were preempted with "I do not know of.. or I do not believe.." I honestly do not know one way or the other if you are or are not correct. I do know Varney offered items one part at a time and you were welcome to build whatever you liked. You may very well be correct. I never said mine came from the factory the way it currently exists. I have no way of proving it. I was just simply presenting it as it is.
But... Just because it is not in a catalog does not necessarily mean it did not come from the factory that way.. For example... I have two 1962 International Minerals and Chemical sets - Athearn's First Promotional Set. These are not cataloged either, but they still exist.
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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waw47
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 3:32:51 PM
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Sean
I guess, I could have stated Varney never cataloged a Super Berkshire kit and there are no known examples of one in an original box. Also, I could stated there are no known examples of advertisements, instruction sheets or order forms for a Super Berkshire kit. Could they have made a few for display or promotional purposes? - maybe. But, there is not a shred of evidence out there that Varney ever marketed a Super Berkshire kit.
As for your IMC set, There are two known examples of the IMC Set in their original boxes. The IMC set was well documented in the Athearn book. There are no known examples or any documentation of a Super Berkshire kit.
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waw47
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 4:19:54 PM
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Sean
I guess, I could have stated Varney never cataloged a Super Berkshire kit and there are no known examples of one in an original box. Also, I could stated there are no known examples of advertisements, instruction sheets or order forms for a Super Berkshire kit. Could they have made a few for display or promotional purposes? - maybe. But, there is not a shred of evidence out there that Varney ever marketed a Super Berkshire kit.
As for your IMC set, There are two known examples of the IMC Set in their original boxes. The IMC set was well documented in the Athearn book. There are no known examples or any documentation of a Super Berkshire kit.
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 4:36:54 PM
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quote:Sean
I guess, I could have stated Varney never cataloged a Super Berkshire kit and there are no known examples of one in an original box. Also, I could stated there are no known examples of advertisements, instruction sheets or order forms for a Super Berkshire kit. Could they have made a few for display or promotional purposes? - maybe. But, there is not a shred of evidence out there that Varney ever marketed a Super Berkshire kit.
As for your IMC set, There are two known examples of the IMC Set in their original boxes. The IMC set was well documented in the Athearn book. There are no known examples or any documentation of a Super Berkshire kit.
Originally posted by waw47Â -Â September 12 2014Â :Â 3:32:51 PM
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Bill,
If I look at this from my scientific & professional engineering trained perspective... all of this is speculation on both parts because there is no clear cut evidence either way. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I am not saying you are right either. I am saying I don't know and at this point, there is NO foreseeable way for either of us to prove either case. Really, I am not trying to debate this with you. You may be right, but we may never know.
Just to reiterate however... I never did say Varney produced the Super Berkshire, but because of the chassis & V-2 motor, that is what it is. Speaking of it's originality was never my objective. I am simply posting some examples of Varney locomotives. I do not know the origins of the engine, nor do It know who built it or if it even came from the factory that way.
As for the IMC set... I was speaking simply from a Catalog perspective. I am sure, before the book written on them was published, this same conversation happened between people who saw it, owned a set and people who never knew of it's existence.
As for John David Spanagel's book "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains"... It was written ~23 years ago, before any internet resources could be tapped and utilized. By today's standards, he was very limited with the information he was able to obtain. There may be many holes in his research we just are not aware of. It may be a very good resource, but I doubt it is the end all-be all with respect to Varney trains.
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 4:48:16 PM
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I did not mean that an example existed of a factory made super Berkshire. I was merely making a general observation about how thin the ice is under an absolute negative statement. In the general sense, that observation is still true.
Meanwhile, lacking documentation one way or the other, I'll just quote a saying from those who practice logic as a rigorous science: "Silence says nothing."
Not a big deal, in this case, but it's worth bearing in mind.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 5:06:35 PM
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quote:That lil joe sort of resembles another Varney loco I have. This fanciful consolidation:
It is a pre-war model with a leaf-sprung all diecast chassis.
Originally posted by Mustangs_n_Trains - September 12 2014 : 12:57:24 PM
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Wow....that is incredible. Pure art. Thanks for posting
http://tycodepot.com/
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waw47
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 6:32:20 PM
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Scsshaggy
I fully understand what you are saying. I normally leave myself an out when posting
about vintage HO. In this case, I am confident about using the word not.
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waw47
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 7:11:35 PM
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Sean
You referred to bottom locomotive in the Berkshire picture as a " brass shell with the "Super" line chassis", which it is. I never said you called it a Varney Super Berkshire.
The point of my post was to clarify Varney did not make a Super Berkshire kit and one could be easily constructed using Varney parts.
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 8:55:14 PM
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I saw this on ebay today. Advertised as a Varney Berkshire. Looks like it has a brass tender.
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 8:59:16 PM
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Major job getting that going again! I think it's a little high for what ain't there.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - September 12 2014 : 11:48:00 PM
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the only reason I want one of them 0-4-0T saddle tankers is to put it on a TIGHT circle
Like Varney showed in one of their catalogs
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Posted - September 13 2014 : 12:15:06 AM
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Me too Ben! And put on top of a pack of cigarettes like it was in older catalog. I see lil Joe's a lot at the shows and never think to buy one!
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - September 13 2014 : 10:34:47 AM
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quote:Sean
The point of my post was to clarify Varney did not make a Super Berkshire kit and one could be easily constructed using Varney parts.
Originally posted by waw47Â -Â September 12 2014Â :Â 7:11:35 PM
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Much appreciated Bill!
I hope this discourse has not in any way offended you. For me, it has not.
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - September 13 2014 : 10:42:12 AM
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quote:Major job getting that going again! I think it's a little high for what ain't there.
Originally posted by Redneck Justin - September 12 2014 : 8:59:16 PM
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That's Swapmonster (Jim) for you. Everything he sells is for the upper price range. His stuff eventually does sell, I guess. Back when eBay allowed you to see what current items a bidder was bidding on, I used him as my daily search. He is one of those people who throws bids in very early in a listing. I used to look for what he had bids on and watch those items and then bid at the end. It made searching easy as that must be all he does is scour eBay. Now, you can't see what someone else is bidding on until the item ends.
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - September 16 2014 : 10:07:17 AM
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All this talk about the Greenberg's Guide to Varney trains I decided to buy one. It was listed on Amazon, so I bought it. I think I will look at it a little and then just re-sell it. Right off the bat, I noticed the book fails to discuss the variations of the Brass streamlined Hudsons.
As can be seen in the two pictures below, one is clearly bronze and the other is brass. The bronze casting has rivet detail on the firebox. There are some other small detail differences not seen in the two pictures below. At this time, I do not remember what they are. but I will try to post some additional pics later.
Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Posted - September 16 2014 : 10:37:18 AM
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| I'd be awful leery of a book that lists a 4-6-8 Hudson.
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Posted - September 17 2014 : 09:05:43 AM
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quote:Nice thread Sean!
Seems that the stoker is on the wrong side on the berkshire!? mine is the one with the diecast frame instead of the brass one, the diecast frame has a wider pilot support and the pilot from the brass frame is to narrow!
I wounder witch pilot was used? it´s as wide as a Casey Jones pilot! on my engine I tried a Selley Pilot but was to narrow.
Cutted the pilot off from a Casey Jones one! Fits perfect now! - Erich
Originally posted by Erich - September 17 2014 : 09:03:52 AM
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Posted - November 22 2014 : 9:08:04 PM
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| Does anyone else own a Varney that they could post. This Sean dude seems to own everything.
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Posted - November 22 2014 : 10:27:31 PM
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quote:Does anyone else own a Varney that they could post. This Sean dude seems to own everything.
Originally posted by Parts323Â -Â November 22 2014Â :Â 9:08:04 PM
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Heh heh, yes, I own a few. I'll post them shortly. I just bought an A-B pair of F-7's today at a show, I have some small shorty stuff, and even a 4-8-8-4 Yellowstone project I can post.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - November 24 2014 : 7:17:08 PM
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I wonder if I can start a model railroader flame war...
PENN LINE COULD BEAT VARNEY ANY DAY!!
Now that I have cheered for my team I will go hide. 
--CRC
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Posted - November 24 2014 : 7:33:42 PM
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| hey MnT Do the book say when Varney was sold off?
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