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 Posted - November 01 2014 : 11:49:21 AM
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The best information I can give to anyone building a locomotive using parts from another is fix or replace a problem when first you see it. Don't do a quick fix.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - November 01 2014 : 1:14:39 PM
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Just a suggestion on the Rivarossi you use. If you can, get the 1968 version of the Reno/Genoa. The pilot/cylinder part was not attached using a rivet, that was the later versions. I'm doing the General using one and things are going a lot better for me.
1968 Production
1970 and later production
George
P.S. Now I know who my competition is on eBay for the Rivarossi 4-4-0s......
Edited by - oldtimer52 on November 01 2014 5:37:22 PM
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Posted - November 01 2014 : 6:06:01 PM
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quote:Just a suggestion on the Rivarossi you use. If you can, get the 1968 version of the Reno/Genoa. The pilot/cylinder part was not attached using a rivet, that was the later versions. I'm doing the General using one and things are going a lot better for me.
George
Originally posted by oldtimer52Â -Â November 01 2014Â :Â 1:14:39 PM
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Well George start a thread on your project.
Frank
toptrain
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Posted - November 02 2014 : 7:44:14 PM
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A little more dome.
Frank
toptrain
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Posted - November 02 2014 : 8:03:09 PM
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Now that is starting to really look good. Love the color scheme you chose for it.
George
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Posted - November 02 2014 : 10:03:19 PM
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It's looking better and better with each new photo you post of it. Good job!
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - November 03 2014 : 07:20:19 AM
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Hi there, George, and Stephen, thanks for the nice comment. I am trying. Definitely wont be perfect. Maybe it still will look OK.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - November 03 2014 : 09:28:40 AM
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quote:Hi there, George, and Stephen, thanks for the nice comment. I am trying. Definitely wont be perfect. Maybe it still will look OK.
frank
Originally posted by toptrain - November 03 2014 : 07:20:19 AM
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You're welcome, Frank.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - November 04 2014 : 5:53:40 PM
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Here is the Loco today. Picture taken one hour ago. I started on the tender coal bunker.
frank
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Posted - November 06 2014 : 08:29:40 AM
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* Now it is starting to look good. No major structural work left to do. All that is left is the good stuff, details. The things that make a bad loco, look good. The period 1880 color scheme is appropriate for the time and the historic look of this CRRofNJ Ashley built locomotive.
frank
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Posted - November 06 2014 : 09:19:50 AM
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 Nice job, Frank!
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - November 07 2014 : 12:39:08 AM
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| Pretty fine Frank. I don't really know anything about these types of locomotives, but I do see in the photographs that engineers do get in the cab . . . seemingly next to the firebox? Am I being stupid here, or is that firebox real well insulated so that the engineers don't roast? I dig that Tuscan color; sets it apart. What sort of work did this locomotive that you're modeling do?
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Posted - November 07 2014 : 04:29:40 AM
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quote:Pretty fine Frank. I don't really know anything about these types of locomotives, but I do see in the photographs that engineers do get in the cab . . . seemingly next to the firebox? Am I being stupid here, or is that firebox real well insulated so that the engineers don't roast? I dig that Tuscan color; sets it apart. What sort of work did this locomotive that you're modeling do?
Originally posted by Barry - November 07 2014 : 12:39:08 AM
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* Barry these were the fast passenger locomotives of their day. My 4-4-0 weighed almost 100,00 lbs., and had 68,670 lbs. on its 4 driving wheels. It ran at 60 mph. and puller 4 to 6 car trains. I wonder what Olive Green, or Lake Blue looks like. These were 2 other colors used by the CRRofNJ. The green was a freight loco color. The blue I think just a fancy color.
frank
fank
toptrain
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Edited by - toptrain on November 07 2014 04:35:53 AM
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Posted - November 07 2014 : 09:40:20 AM
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| Another eagle feather in your hat there. Gorgeous locomotive you done. Now, get a party train going and enjoy a wild time on the rails.
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Posted - November 07 2014 : 1:10:43 PM
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Here you can see a few more details have been added. Still more to do.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on November 07 2014 1:11:56 PM
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Posted - November 07 2014 : 9:46:54 PM
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quote:Is that firebox real well insulated so that the engineers don't roast?
Originally posted by Barry - November 07 2014 : 12:39:08 AM
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The silver part on the firebox and the barrel of the boiler represents a boiler jacket. The boiler was insulated (lagged in industry jargon) and the insulation was covered in sheet metal. Some heat would come through the jacket, but not enough to roast the engineer. In non-camelback cabs, the engineer usually sits next to a jacketed boiler, and the open window is enough to make the experience livable.
The rear surface (backhead), where the fire door is mounted, may or may not be insulated. It depends on the engine. I've fired a locomotive with an unlagged backhead and there is considerable radiant heat. It's nice to be able to wander over to the cab door, occasionally, for a rest from the heat. Of course on cold days, that spot by the backhead is kind of nice.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - November 20 2014 : 09:08:27 AM
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| sweet loco great work frank.ken
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Posted - November 20 2014 : 10:43:59 AM
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I was wondering the exact same thing. Thanks for the education! And love how this is turning out. Been lurking during the build. Thanks for sharing!
Tim
quote: quote:Is that firebox real well insulated so that the engineers don't roast?
Originally posted by Barry - November 07 2014 : 12:39:08 AM
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The silver part on the firebox and the barrel of the boiler represents a boiler jacket. The boiler was insulated (lagged in industry jargon) and the insulation was covered in sheet metal. Some heat would come through the jacket, but not enough to roast the engineer. In non-camelback cabs, the engineer usually sits next to a jacketed boiler, and the open window is enough to make the experience livable.
The rear surface (backhead), where the fire door is mounted, may or may not be insulated. It depends on the engine. I've fired a locomotive with an unlagged backhead and there is considerable radiant heat. It's nice to be able to wander over to the cab door, occasionally, for a rest from the heat. Of course on cold days, that spot by the backhead is kind of nice.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - November 07 2014 : 9:46:54 PM
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Posted - November 20 2014 : 7:50:48 PM
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quote:sweet loco great work frank.ken
Originally posted by catfordken - November 20 2014 : 09:08:27 AM
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* Good to see you pal. Thanks for the nice comment. Next weekend at the Greenberg Edison train show I should be able to get a pair of marker lights. Local hobby shop doesn't carry any. Then finish the CNJ D4.
frank
toptrain
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Edited by - toptrain on November 20 2014 7:53:25 PM
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Posted - November 20 2014 : 7:57:17 PM
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Hi Tim; Now you've read the works of the "frustrated modeler". When the marker lights go on I will call it done. I hate to do a 35 mile trip each way to get a set of them. Hope there at the Edison show. Got to be there sat the 29th and sun the 30th anyway. Its closer.
frank
toptrain
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Edited by - toptrain on November 21 2014 7:54:19 PM
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Posted - November 20 2014 : 9:49:35 PM
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| Hey Ken. Frank, I'm glad to see you finally got an engineer in the cab instead of letting it run around of it's own accord. Don, thanks for that education about the insulation of the boiler; now I'm left but to wonder . . . why did they stick the cab in the middle to begin with? Vision?
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Posted - November 21 2014 : 09:01:25 AM
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quote:Hey Ken. Frank, I'm glad to see you finally got an engineer in the cab instead of letting it run around of it's own accord. Don, thanks for that education about the insulation of the boiler; now I'm left but to wonder . . . why did they stick the cab in the middle to begin with? Vision?
Originally posted by Barry - November 20 2014 : 9:49:35 PM
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Hello Don : The engineer was always there. He was just sleeping on the floor of the cab. Glad you liked Shaggy and Tim's tutoring on the fine points of running a Camelback locomotive.
** About the centercab. Got to tell you in a story. I made it up. it could have happened, just like this.
*** This is pure fiction . Not to be taken as fact. Just a story with one view of why a center cab. ***
Title: A first run of locomotive 89.
*** .Goe' ( alias Joe ) and Moe ( alias Old bum fireman) are crewing a the first run of their railroads the PGW's new modified Wiannis type 2-8-0. Now Goe' is in that rear cab behind the boiler. This is a last minute change asked for by this railroad the PGW. The cab was designed to sit on top of the boiler. Working the throttle and adjusting the flow of water to the boiler and from the tank in the tender. Goe's position alongside his fireman is a more common location. It would have been forward of the standard great big steam dome, within the house atop the boiler, in a location giving great visibility to the tracks ahead. Passing through the village of Netcong they have left the yard at Lake Hopatcong behind, and out of sight. The camel is steaming at almost 25 miles an hour now. It is pulling a very heavy mixed rake of cars tail ended by a combine and a cabin car. The conductor, named Shaggy, is back in the cabin car, at the end of the train. He is constantly giving direction to the brakemen stationed at intervals throughout the length of the train. They are testing the PGW's new signal device mounted on top of this new style cabin car with of all things, a raised section with windows called a copula. No more flag waving during the day to tell those lazy brakemen what to do. Modern times are great for the Conductor, Shaggy. A lot less work to be done. Now he just pulls a cord that exposes a large round day glow orange disk, visible to all the brakemen to apply the brakes. We'll be passing through the woods of Stanhope soon. "Lots of little turns here", he tells Tim his brakeman in the cabin car.
* Now the real test for the signal system come shortly as the train must past through the many tight turns in the Forest of Lockwood. These constant turns caused the Flag Stop at Lockwood to be built on one of these curves. Platform and all. Shaggy knows that there is no stop scheduled here today. A Englishman named Mr. K. Catford from London is aboard this mixed train, in the combine, the last car to the rear before the cabin car. Mr. Catford is the "Chief of Maintance, and Repair" for the London branch of the PGW. And is here as a observer, representing the PGW. And getting a good free ride, and meal. As the locomotive proceeds through the turns in the Woods of Stanhope the location of the fire box door moves left and right with the curve. A unnatural movement for a well designed locomotive. It is not easy for Moe to feed coal to the fire box. These are just slight curves. The location of the cab a top of the boiler of the original Wiannis design places the last driver directly below the backhead keeping the fire box door in line with Moe's position on the tender platform. On locomotives like this one where the cab extends back beyond the firebox backhead and last driver set, there is a swinging motion left and right as the locomotive goes through turns. The cab extends out from an in line position with the tender. On bumpy branch lines, like this one, the shovel can miss the door opening as it move left and right, and up and down.
* Now we are approaching the first sharp turn to the left. We see a old wood platform used in the past to load wood into the tender. Wood was prepared and left here by the closest land owner. The conductor would leave a company token to be picked up by the land owner for each cord of wood taken. The land owner would be able to purchase goods or get the agreed on amount of money for each cord of wood. The railroad made these arraignments with the local merchants.
* Now going 25 miles an hour we will pass quickly through this forest area, and the Lockwood flag stop. WHATS THIS ! WE HAVE STRUCK THE OLD PLATFORM KNOCKING IT OVER. "BRAKE THE TRAIN ! BRAKE THE TRAIN !" Shouts the conductor. Tim runs out to the rear cabin car platform to apply the brakes. Shaggy pulls the signal cord and holds it open, a signal for a immediate stop. The screech of the cabin cars brakes draw the attention of all the brakemen. In an instant they read the signal and the brakemen are flying from car to car applying the brakes. We are upon the station at Lockwood ! Tim leans on the break wheel and the screeching gets even louder. The rear of the cabs overhang now starts to tear up the Lockwood station platform. We come to a stop. Too late for the station platform, and the side of the locomotive 89's cab. All that can be said is that the train had stopped in a record short distance, and no one was injured.
* A look back at this event : As reported by Snoopy the Railroad photographer who was accompanying Mr. Catford in the combine with other area dignitaries, on this, the first run of #89 * It would seem that this change in design of a rear cab from a camel style cab, has been done prematurely, and hastily, before a proper study was dome on this new Locomotive's ability to run on this branch, with the present clearances. Maybe just a corporate excuse for a pick-nick.
*** This is pure fiction . Not to be taken as fact. Just a story with one view of why a center cab. ***
* * It may be, I say MAY BE or MIGHT have some relationship to past events here at the PGW. *
toptrain
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Edited by - toptrain on November 21 2014 7:37:55 PM
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Posted - November 21 2014 : 2:23:54 PM
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Here I was thinking something so bland and colorless as, "The cab can't straddle a Wooten firebox, so it had to be behind it or ahead of it." Meanwhile, Toptrain was expanding the horizons of literature."
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Posted - November 21 2014 : 2:52:31 PM
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** "When you think you got it. maybe you don't" quote the raven. Also ' Never More, Never More !!!
This is all done for fun.
toptrain
toptrain
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Edited by - toptrain on November 21 2014 3:03:47 PM
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Posted - November 21 2014 : 5:44:10 PM
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Toptrain, you've got to publish that in some railroad short story book collection thing. It truly is incredible.Honestly, it's pretty good. 
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - November 21 2014 : 8:55:15 PM
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| Seems like a whole bunch of intuitive train knowledge came out in that story Frank. True or not, I gained some insight into early railroading. Let me ask you, though, is that true that a rear cab sways back and forth enough to make it hard for the fireman on tight curves (wherever a line with that many tight curves might exist)?
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Posted - November 21 2014 : 9:21:53 PM
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Most engines with a tender have a plate between the cab floor and the tender deck that slides around on the tender deck as the tender and cab move in relation to each other. The plate is hinged to the cab floor (sort of) so it follows the movements of the cab. The fireman, when shoveling coal into the firebox door would be either on the cab floor or that plate, so the movements shouldn't mess up his aim.
As the cab gets farther out behind the rigid wheelbase, the ride does get rougher. It's a little like playing crack the whip. The fireman does need his sea legs to keep his balance, but that's easy to get used to. Any engine with a trailing truck will suffer from all the same effects. The overhang on curves will be greater and the ride will be rougher, especially at mainline speeds.
There were engines with the big, wide Wooten fireboxes that had the cabs mounted behind the firebox. The Reading Atlantic on the top of every page of this web site is an example. Note the step cut out of the lower front corner of the cab. About the first third of the cab straddled the firebox and the rest was behind it.
In all practicality, the cab could go either place. I really don't know what drove the decision to place it ahead of or behind the fire box.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - November 22 2014 : 9:54:18 PM
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quote:Seems like a whole bunch of intuitive train knowledge came out in that story Frank. True or not, I gained some insight into early railroading. Let me ask you, though, is that true that a rear cab sways back and forth enough to make it hard for the fireman on tight curves (wherever a line with that many tight curves might exist)?
Originally posted by Barry - November 21 2014 : 8:55:15 PM
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* All the average person needs to do is think about it. Form a opinion. I never say some one is right or wrong. I will give my opinion.
* A good subject locomotive for this problem is the Reading C1 Reading class 4-4-4 locomotive. The reason it became a 4-4-2 P7 class is what happened in the story. Being a part of this forum the P7 is seen here often. The only rear cab class of Atlantic the Reading had. Also there were very few of them, only 4. the same number as The Reading made C1s.
frank
toptrain
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Edited by - toptrain on March 30 2015 07:18:43 AM
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Posted - March 30 2015 : 07:27:13 AM
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I should have put this in sooner. A link to 567 running. It is a special so flying white flags on its front pilot.
frank
https://www.flickr.com/photos/30431536@N03/15347614624/
toptrain
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Posted - March 30 2015 : 08:44:25 AM
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That thing flies! Looks good!
Tim
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Posted - March 30 2015 : 10:56:37 AM
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| Frank, that locomotive looks great. I kept playing the video over to see if the flags were actually waving. I'd like to see a video of it cruising along a bit more slowly.
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Posted - March 30 2015 : 12:16:53 PM
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| Man, that loco turned out fantastic. It seems to run real well too.
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Posted - April 01 2015 : 10:57:55 AM
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quote:Man, that loco turned out fantastic. It seems to run real well too.
Originally posted by oldtimer52Â -Â March 30 2015Â :Â 12:16:53 PM
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Thank you George. I'm glad you posted. Barry I may do another video some other time
Frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on December 12 2015 5:28:25 PM
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Posted - May 02 2015 : 7:26:50 PM
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Beautiful locomotive Frank!
Well done!!
Sean
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