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thetramp
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tramp

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 Posted - June 09 2014 :  8:09:24 PM Link directly to this topic  Show Profile  Add thetramp to Buddylist
I have a Lionel HO GP30 and can not find an assembly diagram. I have looked on hoseeker and else where. Nothing found. Can someone help?
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JNXT 7707
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 Posted - June 09 2014 :  8:51:44 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add JNXT 7707 to Buddylist
Taking a look tramp - I found this link, says that Bachmann GP-30s were identical to the Lionels - both made by Kader. So possibly if an assembly diagram for a Bachmann GP-30 of that time frame could be found it would work.

http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/bachmannhoscalelocomotives/id58.html

Does this look like the innards of your Lionel GP-30?

http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionbachmann/bachmannemdgp30diagram1990.jpg

http://tycodepot.com/
Edited by - JNXT 7707 on June 09 2014 8:56:25 PM
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thetramp
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tramp

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 Posted - June 09 2014 :  8:56:51 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add thetramp to Buddylist
Thanks Jerry, I appreciate the info.
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NickelPlate759
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 Posted - June 09 2014 :  10:19:30 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add NickelPlate759 to Buddylist
If it's Kader, It's most likely early pre-pancake drive Kader. I don't know of any drawings for the GP30 or the Bachmann U-boats, but the AHM FT was built by Kader and had the same 8 wheel drive.

http://www.hoseeker.org/AHMRivarossiassembly/ahmbuildersbiblepage103.jpg

Other Lionel HO diesels from that era appear to have been built by Roco, with a GE motor and only one powered truck. Hope this helps.

The Tyco Depot
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waw47
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 Posted - June 10 2014 :  12:17:52 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add waw47 to Buddylist
All of the Lionel GP-30s were produced by Kader for Lionel. The units are the same as Bachmann's GP-30 except for the weight.
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lvrr325
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 Posted - June 10 2014 :  9:43:04 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add lvrr325 to Buddylist
Bachmann still makes the GP30 on at least it's third drive incarnation.

Lionel had their own tooling for some engines, others were made for them by Kader. Roco made some frieght cars but no locomotives.
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NickelPlate759
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 Posted - June 11 2014 :  12:41:01 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add NickelPlate759 to Buddylist
I believe the 70's GP9 and FA were Roco made. The design more closely follows 70's Roco practices like those made for Model Power (diecast frames & trucks, and those snap on plastic truck halves), not Bachmann's.

http://www.hoseeker.org/lionelhoinformation/lionelhopa1diagram1974.jpg

http://www.hoseeker.org/lionelhoinformation/lionelhogp9diagram1974.jpg

The Tyco Depot
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lvrr325
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 Posted - June 11 2014 :  04:33:05 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add lvrr325 to Buddylist
Believe what you like, but that's not the case.

FA shell is the same old Hobbyline shell from the '50s and the GP9 shell is the same 1959 Lionel tooling/Athearn clone with the cab upgraded. U18B was a new shell made to fit the GP7 frame - and it too is much an Athearn clone, with the same too-wide hoods. All were made in the US by Lionel before going to a drive with the same pancake motors as the GP30; not sure if the shell tool moved to Hong Kong but I suspect not since none have appeared in any other lines.

In fact, when Lionel introduced the RailScope, or whatever they called their primitive version of a train with a TV camera in it, they brought back the FA tool for the HO one - and used a drive with Blomberg styled trucks under it.

Roco items are marked Roco, made in Austria, and in the 1970s Roco made it's own FA sold by Model Power.

I don't have the Greenberg Guide Vol. 2, but I've browsed it before. Some of the frieght cars were made by Roco, and some by Kader. Others were made by Lionel themselves.

It's certainly possible the drive clones existing Roco engines, but even the coupler mounting differs - whereas in the C424 made for AHM, you can see the similarities in truck sideframe design and they used the same oddball couplers as the original FA2/Shark drive used.


FWIW, the Greenberg Guide To Lionel HO Trains Vol. 2 1974-1977 may have a GP30 diagram in it, it's noted as having diagrams for some engines.

Personally, though, I'd toss the pancale and put some later drive under the shell if I wanted to operate it.

Edited by - lvrr325 on June 11 2014 04:34:24 AM
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NickelPlate759
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 Posted - June 12 2014 :  03:24:51 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add NickelPlate759 to Buddylist
quote:
Believe what you like, but that's not the case.


Just sharing observations.

quote:


It's certainly possible the drive clones existing Roco engines...

Originally posted by lvrr325 - June 11 2014 :  04:33:05 AM



Without the smoking gun of an Austrian maker's mark, this is most likely the case. Lionel probably copied some aspects of Roco's Model Power designs, as they were well regarded at the time. Lionel seemed to have an ongoing identity crisis in HO. And despite some differences, the shape of the coupler shanks and tail springs are much closer to Roco's than Kader's Tyco clones.

The Tyco Depot
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thetramp
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tramp

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 Posted - June 21 2014 :  2:04:50 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add thetramp to Buddylist
Jerry, I just got the engine in the mail today and you hit the nail on the head with the innards of the Lionel GP 30. I put it on the track right out of the package and it spit and sputtered. I cleaned the wheels and put a dab of oil on the motor shaft that I could see when I took the body off. Now, I can not figure how to take the truck covers off to grease the gears. On top of that, I am having cataract surgery Monday so my eye site is not that great at the moment.
Edited by - thetramp on June 21 2014 2:05:59 PM
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rbturner
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RBT

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 Posted - June 21 2014 :  3:21:07 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add rbturner to Buddylist
Good luck with the surgery Frank.
Randy
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thetramp
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tramp

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 Posted - June 21 2014 :  3:45:42 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add thetramp to Buddylist
Thanks Randy, I appreciate it.
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JNXT 7707
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 Posted - June 21 2014 :  7:56:27 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add JNXT 7707 to Buddylist
tramp - without looking at it, thinking about those old Bachmann trucks and similar designs of the day - I would look for a clip on one or both ends of the truck, where the covers (along with the side frames too) are attached. Should be able to pry it off with a thin-bladed screwdriver.

And yes, good luck with your surgery!

http://tycodepot.com/
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