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 Posted - April 06 2014 : 9:45:39 PM
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I went to the local train club's quarterly swap meet/ flea market on Sat. 4/5 and, while I was able to pick up a great deal of what I needed (more I-M 33" semi-insulated wheels, unbuilt car kits for future projects and such, what I also saw on many vendor's tables was either NIB stuff selling for near-retail prices (they knock off a dollar or two for effect), old kadee-equipped car that sold for $5-$6 just a year ago, now going for $10 each, a whole lot of train set junk cars (the ones with press-fit trucks, no body weight and poor or exaggerated graphics that say Made in China) being pawned off for $5-$6 each.
I bought a Microscale white lettering sheet from a guy I regularly do business with- and I know this stuff came directly from a local LHS which closed 2 years ago- where he wanted $7 for a sheet that was retailing for $8 online from Microscale.
There were tons- well, literally hundreds of cheap train set F units that have been to more shows than I have, virtually no shells of any diesels anywhere (for bashing and parts sources), but there were lots of long-out-of-print railroad books (shrink wrapped to look fresh) that were ignored by all the folks walking past the tables.
As I do not have direct (reasonable drive time) access to other local shows, except for a small-timer independent who puts on "mini-shows" in Kof C halls and other small venues (who was at this show himself!) where the same old stuff (less of it) is set out for the umpteenth time, it is getting a bit thin to me- as far as what's available on the cheap.
Those of you who live up in the northeast or around Chicago have more options, although the weather is not worth trading for!
I am starting to wonder if the flea market/swap meet venues are becoming more a place for resellers trying to get top dollar than a place where true used-price purchasing can be done.
E-bay and it's attendant shipping costs often scare me away from greater participation- what's a frugal model railroader to do?
Siouxlake Ron
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Posted - April 06 2014 : 10:12:01 PM
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quote:what's a frugal model railroader to do?
Originally posted by siouxlake - April 06 2014 : 9:45:39 PM
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Ron, I hear you loud and clear and certainly agree. It's not just your area but here too. I could just about use your same post to describe the shows I see. But, this year there does seem to be hope. At the train show last month and at the one I went to on Saturday, each had ONE new vendor that I hadn't seen before (and yes I do know the vendors by sight now). Both had large inventories and both had decent (realistic) prices. And both got 100% of my business at both shows. It's fun to buy from these guys, and yet they aren't giving it away either.
Now...if these guys can do it, why can't the rest? Or are the rest pushing prices up to see what the market will bear?
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - April 06 2014 : 10:34:55 PM
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JNXT:
Thanks for your compliment in your crane and boom car posting recently, but I consider myself a rank amateur every time I go online and see the expert work of others.
Regarding that one new vendor you found- I have the same "sweetheart" or two that I can get reasonable stuff from, but their inventories are highly variable. Some shows I try to give them business, but other shows it is tough- I will at least buy one thing from each just to be a nice guy (which pays off the next time when I try to negotiate a cheaper deal for myself with them.
The general trends I wrote about may just be particular in certain geographic areas, but when you consider that Florida has 20 million (well, mostly) citizens- a significant number of whom retired from other states and brought their model railroad hobby with them, it should be a far more fruitful trip to the swap meet that it has been recently. In addition, some of these vendors know their territory well and buy up estate sale railroad stuff regularly- places like the Villages near Orlando, with a large retirement population that changes frequently with seniors passing away. We also have a lot of pensioners from states like NY, NY, PA who come down and are active modelers for another 25 yrs or sop, because they retired at 55 from up north.
I also see this (high prices or junk) at the seasonal (Xmas) "Train Show" we have at the Tampa State Fairgrounds each holiday season generally- lots of expensive stuff, surrounded by small vendors tables full of absolute junk, with nothing in-between.
I am sure Miami/ Ft Lauderdale is a bit more fertile grounds for cheap train stuff, but you won't catch me driving 5+ hrs to Miami for ANY reason ( including the wife's relatives!).
Siouxlake Ron
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Posted - April 06 2014 : 10:44:00 PM
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quote:Thanks for your compliment in your crane and boom car posting recently, but I consider myself a rank amateur every time I go online and see the expert work of others.
Originally posted by siouxlake - April 06 2014 : 10:34:55 PM
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Amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic. 
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 09:32:47 AM
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Well Ron here in the north east train show dealers prices of HO trains do not reflect new car prices. It is hard enough to sell cars at four each and three for ten. Here there are always some dealers how think old used car are worth their weight in gold. I am glade not to many do that. There are dealers here who sell collectable HO cars like Gilbert and Lionel for high prices. Most don't. Those are the tables I visit and window shop. You have to remember that those who use online auction sites regularly see common trains going for uncommon prices.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 09:56:58 AM
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Hey Ron,
I hear ya. The economy is down and those old train pieces are older than they were at last year's train show.
So, why are the asking prices higher?
I recognize vendors and the same stuff they bring year after year. But, I'm really surprised that a club swap meet was so disappointing. The better train show swap meets that I have been to are the ones hosted by a local train club. Mind you I have come across some really good deals at bigger shows, too.
The re-shrinked wrapped stuff is probably done for the new affect but, the books are likely shrink wrapped to keep guys from pawing through all the pages.
Ebay has some great deals, but you are right, shipping costs just kill it. Gone are the days I could get a blue box Athearn GP9 in very good condition to my door for $4.00.
Forget about Craigslist. They ask some insane prices for some old train set, generic stuff.
Because it's vintage it must be worth a whole bunch of money.
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 10:28:31 AM
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Well Duh!
The price of used Cars is affected by the price of new cars.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/JRG1951/20140407102338_Price.gif
Bachmann Online: http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=258_324_327_329
Regards, John ************************
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. <> Plato
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 10:32:43 AM
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Well, I understand the collector perspective- they place a relative value on specific models as a function of their own calculation, with the difference being the negotiation between them and a seller/vendor, but having said that...
Some of these tables are covered with the cheeziest of the cheap made-in-China stuff that cannot be rehabbed beyond just a bit of improvement, as opposed to the Athearn BBs, Accurail kits, etc. where new wheels and Kadee couplers, repainting (or just improved re-decaling) and proper weighting go a long way towards a better piece of rolling stock.
If you took and just threw a bunch of old cars and locomotives in a bag, then dumped them out on a vendor table, this is what I saw the other day.
I also notice that the vendors who have repriced their stuff (higher) had very few active lookers, those potential customers that spend a few minutes carefully reviewing the stuff for sale. I ALSO noticed that a lot of that NIB equipment was not being looked at seriously, either.
Craigslist here in Tampa- and in the adjacent mid Florida area- is not a lucrative place to look- like E-bay, the few sellers there are on Craigslist have an inflated opinion of the relative worth of what they are hawking- perhaps that is why they are still listed and relisted for months on end!
Well, one can always hope for better pricing- perhaps the greed will give way to reality. I would really double my car purchases (and some locomotives/diesels) if the prices came down to 2009-10 levels again.
Ron
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 12:27:46 PM
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some flea markets around my areas have decent prices!
I did find the Revell Global Moving Van UNASSEMBLED for $10
Plus a Revel Heinz 57 Pickle Car for $5 in the box
So it all depends where you shop
May find cheap bargins or high dollar ones 
Train shows are a good bet to find stuffs cheap
Like the AHM Boeing LRV MUNI I got for $10 hehe
Or a ExactRail boxcar for $6
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 12:39:38 PM
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I now have a dealer account, so I can't be giving away stuff I paid 60% of list price for for 40% off. After table, gas at $4 a gallon, etc. I'd be losing money.
I've lost count of guys who think they can pick any four loose cars for $10 from a sign that says right on it four $3 cars are $10, three $4 cars are $10, etc. and all are priced -
Edited by - lvrr325 on April 07 2014 12:40:17 PM
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 1:30:08 PM
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| Glad I'm not in the model train selling business. My limited sales are put on eBay for 99 cents and let the buyers set the price... My purchases are 99 percent eBay as well...
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 1:48:14 PM
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quote:Glad I'm not in the model train selling business. My limited sales are put on eBay for 99 cents and let the buyers set the price... My purchases are 99 percent eBay as well...
Originally posted by walt - April 07 2014 : 1:30:08 PM
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With few exceptions that is how I sell on ebay, and I probably get a third of my stuff off ebay. Would get more but some sellers charge too much for shipping. I know (as a seller) there are other factors that add to shipping but it seems a big percentage of the sellers are trying to get profit insurance with it.
At train shows, 5 years ago any 4 loose cars for $10 were common, but I understand those days are over. Sellers do have to make some money to remain in the game as good sellers. The vendors I mentioned that I buy from do everything that I like: price their merchandise realistically and plainly, are willing to give a bit of a break if I buy in quantity, and are knowledgeable about what they have. I'll buy from them until my cash is gone.
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 1:49:18 PM
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It seems we're back to the Polling forum question: Has model railroading gotten too expensive?
From lvrr, we get a perspective on why dealers have to charge so much. On the other hand, the buyers can't see forking over much money for a product on which they may just spend more money for upgraded wheels and couplers, paint, decals, etc. Count how many cars you have and multiply by $26, new, or $5-10 used. Are you sitting down?
Market forces seem to be pushing toward a point in which no one can afford to buy or sell. Many dealers could fall by the wayside. Buyers could end up having to ration their purchases toward a different kind of model railroading where a few good models replace large fleets. Who among us does not have more cars than the layout really justifies.
That cheap abundance seem to be gradually ending.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 2:03:25 PM
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quote:It seems we're back to the Polling forum question: Has model railroading gotten too expensive?
From lvrr, we get a perspective on why dealers have to charge so much. On the other hand, the buyers can't see forking over much money for a product on which they may just spend more money for upgraded wheels and couplers, paint, decals, etc. Count how many cars you have and multiply by $26, new, or $5-10 used. Are you sitting down?
Market forces seem to be pushing toward a point in which no one can afford to buy or sell. Many dealers could fall by the wayside. Buyers could end up having to ration their purchases toward a different kind of model railroading where a few good models replace large fleets. Who among us does not have more cars than the layout really justifies.
That cheap abundance seem to be gradually ending.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - April 07 2014 : 1:49:18 PM
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You have some good points there sshaggy. I'm probably in the minority of those who find doing all those upgrades on an old piece of rolling stock what I enjoy about the hobby. Comparing new to upgraded the new may well end up being the better buy, but I find it boring and get a kick out of seeing the old stuff running well.
Now the other side of that coin is indeed the reality of the size of my collection vs. my ability to run it all. John (JRG1951) had some sage advice on one of his posts from another thread, about not letting your collection own you. I have taken that advice to heart and am selling off the pieces that I am simply holding on to, replacing some of them with items that follow my current interests and layout size. And it's also a fact of life that the selling off part is required to fund further buying, so that in itself should limit overall fleet size.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 2:44:05 PM
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| Guess I'm a lucky one who has bought 99 percent of everything I want or need. I still need train track, scenic landscraping and will get more slot cars in the future! Feels weird that I don't look at eBay nightly any longer
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 2:50:54 PM
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| walt i wonder,you not feel the urge to splurge,ants in the pants sort of thing,ken
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 3:15:24 PM
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quote:Guess I'm a lucky one who has bought 99 percent of everything I want or need. I still need train track, scenic landscraping and will get more slot cars in the future! Feels weird that I don't look at eBay nightly any longer
Originally posted by walt - April 07 2014 : 2:44:05 PM
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Honestly Walt, how many unbuilt, sealed McDonald's/Burger Kings/Howard Johnson's do you need anyway?
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 3:38:15 PM
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Ken, I just can't find anything more I want. It's just kinda like I'm satisfied and thankful for what I have now...
Jerry, I'm one that only buys 1 sealed kit of each that I like. My repeat crazy buying habit went towards the Tyco piggyback flats with trailers... But it's all under control now and I'm off the slippery slope.
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 6:01:14 PM
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Jerry, et al:
I have a lot of cars- and I am still building my small switching yard/loco+car rework facility- but I do find that I am still obtaining rolling stock to establish the geographic identity of my railroad, so I probably am about 15 cars from "getting full". But- like you, JNXT Jerry, one of my prime pleasures in railroad modeling is to refurbish the old and make it near-new again, or improve what looked like a toy and give it new life as a working scale model. I have a fleet of diesels and steam locomotives (over 30) that await DCC conversion, so I will be busy right up thru the start of my retirement with benchwork (5 years from now), as well as the layout itself.
Thankfully, most of my purchasing is done for the "capital equipment", but- if the flea market/swap meet quality level becomes split between the high end slightly discounted stuff and the trash I saw this past weekend, then my interest in attending these scheduled events faithfully will rapidly diminish. I can get detail parts for diesels on ebay and bite the shipping cost bullet, but it is much better to hand around fellow hobbyists periodically than remain a lone wolf all the time- that is part of the fun of going. But just to drive and chat, and come home empty-handed seems a waste somehow.
Ron
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 7:07:05 PM
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Ron I have only been actively modeling since 2009, so it's hard for me to look at the market and say this has all happened before - but I would guess it probably has. At some point the market should stabilize somewhere between out the roof and dirt cheap. We do seem to be in a seller's market now with the prices as they are but I am doubting the high sellers are moving much product, rather it's the ones I have bought from lately that are selling. They're getting my dollars anyway!
I know what you mean about going to shows and it seeming like a waste of time if there's nothing to buy. My last trip to a show in Columbus I ended up getting a handful of things more or less so I wouldn't go home empty-handed. Nice pieces but still, I over paid.
It's funny the first 3 years or so I bought a lot of stuff, most of it just the best deals in quantity I could find. Lots of the "4 cars for ten bucks" deals. Wasn't real particular, I wanted everything...and I'd say my collection grew by about 100 pieces a year. Now, in the last year and this year...I never would have believed it but it's stopped growing, since I've started selling off some items too and began fine tuning things....and it's just as fun.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - April 07 2014 : 9:11:43 PM
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quote:
Honestly Walt, how many unbuilt, sealed McDonald's/Burger Kings/Howard Johnson's do you need anyway?
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â April 07 2014Â :Â 3:15:24 PM
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HEY! I wants one of each please + 7up plant Pizza Hut & 3-4 Baskin-Robbins stores!
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