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 Posted - December 31 2013 : 8:22:00 PM
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Poll Question:
Please read my rant, help me out:
I have 100 locos, 600 cars, but I haven't an inch of track permanently built anywhere. I have to get some kind of layout built before I go insane from lack of operating. My plans are for something around-the-walls, maybe DCC if I can afford it since about 1/3 of my locos already have decoders. NOT a 4x8 - I have tried loops of this size and the consists I try to build never even fit.
There's two options:
1. Build in the basement. I have a fairly large area that my parents will let me build in (16 x 12 or something like that) as long as I clean out the small amount of stuff that's there. However, the basement is unfinished, lighting will be a problem, and all of my train stuff - all the cars, workbench and parts supply - is in my room so I can work on it late at night, which is basically the only time I ever get train stuff done. Move it all down to the basement so I don't have to haul several flats of crap back and forth 2 stories every day, and my room is empty and I won't be able to get much done on it during the day when I can get down there. This space, however, is completely open, and big enough I can design a layout that can reasonably fit an era of 1930-present.
2. Switching layout in my room. Most of what I like to do is switching, anyways, so I'd be willing to sacrifice a mainline loop for lots of switching, a yard, and interesting scenery. I've thoroughly planned out how I can cram a switching layout, with all the works, into my room, where all my stuff already is, and where I can work on it as much as I want. It's a fantastic trackplan. Only catch is, it's impossible to get enough stuff OUT of my room temporarily (floor-to-ceiling stacks of flats are not, as it turns out, a good thing) to actually do any construction, and my parents don't want me to use up all the remaining space in my room with a peninsula sticking out from the wall. More importantly, what I've designed (and I can't really fit anything else) will only work set in the transition era up to about the early 60s - and about 1/3 of my collection is modern-day rolling stock. Much of my best work is in my modern cars and I'd hate to put alll the effort into a layout and them not to be able to run them.
Both of these have enough trade-offs that I'm not sure if I should just give up on a layout altogether and wait till I have my own house as an adult to build anything, since there's only 3 years for me to build till I go off to college. But assuming I do build something, I'm at a loss which of these to pick. So I figured I'd ask the forums, and if anyone bothered to read that whole rant, please help me out.
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--CRC
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Posted - January 01 2014 : 12:25:41 PM
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You make a good argument for building in your bedroom, although having the room in the basement is mighty tempting.
When I started out, I built a small layout in the corner, then a shelf layout, and then a modular layout in the basement, before I had the room to build a large basement layout. It was all good practice for my large layout, and I'm still learning. So build something, whether it is upstairs in your room or downstairs.
You might consider a shelf layout along the walls with an urban switching theme. The shelf could go along two walls and give you enough industries to keep you busy for quite a while. You could have a ferry slip at one end for interchange using a 5-digit ferry boat (your hand). That way different rolling stock will make it on and off the layout in a realistic manner. There is a good example of a shelf layout in the Feb 2005 Model Railroader.
For the basement, consider building a "modular" layout. That is, one that comes apart in sections. That would allow you to move the layout to a new place. A great example is in Malcolm Furlow's book "HO Narrow Gauge Railroad You Can Build". This was my layout-building bible when I was building my first basement layout. I followed the track plan but made it standard gauge and totally changed the scenery to fit my tastes (northern California redwoods). When I moved to a new house, the layout came with me in three parts, each of which easily fit in the back of a pickup. At the new place I connected everything back up and it worked great.
For lighting, make a trip to Home Depot or Lowes and look at getting a light bar with three or more lights. Four-foot fluorescent fixtures are also a good option and they are cheap too.
Good luck on building a layout. Either way, you will be glad you did. You'll learn a lot.
-Thomas
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Posted - January 01 2014 : 5:43:23 PM
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You make good arguments both for AND against the 2 options!
So...although I voted option 3 based on that - I don't have an alternative for you. BUT, all is not lost.
First of all, Redwoods gave some good solid advice.
As for me - when I first read your post, it sounded like at first you were the most enthused about the switching layout. Then you talked yourself out of it (any way you can approach the practical situation of that differently?)
I can relate to your situation though, in kind of a similar situation myself although at the other end of the age scale. I'm ready to build THE layout, but so near retirement and not sure when we will be taking that plunge - so I don't know whether to wait or start something modular here. Thankfully I do have a layout to run though, so I don't feel all your pain.
Personally, I like the large running consists you describe, and so if I were you I would go for the basement, and - like Redwoods mentioned, think modular. No way you can go down there late at night and work? You could also incorporate switching down there as well too.
I think the important thing is that you start somewhere, with something - even if it is switching in your room. I say this because it will allow you to begin to work on your layout building skills (benchwork, laying track, scenery, buildings). My biggest item of wisdom is to tell you that your first layout, whatever it may be, will not be your last. It will be the biggest teacher for you though. You'll discover what works and what doesn't for you, and you will find - I will bet - that your railroad interests will evolve as well, probably into areas you might not have though possible.
So Option 3 is: Pick one and start! 
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - January 01 2014 : 7:27:23 PM
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Excellent advice so far. Here's my two cents...
From my point of view, you're over-thinking this. You obviously have several interests when it comes to modelling. That's a good thing, but when it comes to building a layout with the space and (presumably) cost constraints you have, there's no way you can cram everything in. As stated above, this is your first layout, this won't be your last layout. Think of it as a learning experience. Pick something and go for it. Absolute worst case scenario, you learn valuable skills and have a productive use of your time. 
I went through this same thing fairly recently (I'm 21). My first layout was a super generic 4x8, plaster mountain, mishmash of building kits, Woodland Scenics ground foam, double oval. Very little imagination, but I could run just about any era I pleased and it wouldn't look out of place. Next I built a slightly more refined point-to-point layout with distinct fall scenery, detailed buildings, grade crossings, etc. Then there was a small 2x4 N scale layout modeled after specific pictures of Western Canada. And finally I'm working on a futuristic, outer-space themed, slotcar/train layout.
...I'm starting to ramble, but my point is just pick something and roll with it. Think of everything as a learning experience.
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Posted - January 01 2014 : 9:16:48 PM
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Thanks for your help guys!
Making a good argument for and against both? Hmm, I believe that's why I haven't built anything yet. I haven't been able to argue myself out of either one for months
DaCheez, perhaps you're right. I guess I already knew I was overthinking it but it didn't really register.
I think I may go for something in my room, since it's smaller and I think I found a solution to the storage problems anyway. (File boxes under the benchwork. How did I never realize I could just store the junk that's already there under the layout?  ) I can still use the same benchwork as I figured for the pennsy switching layout, but not try something so complicated on it. Just something simple for now, I can run whatever I have, and not spend all my time trying to build a continent first. Besides, as you all said, a first layout is usually a learning experience. I shouldn't try to build all my ideas at first. And perhaps as Redwoods said, I should make it something modular I can take apart and put in the basement if I ever do decide to expand it.
Now to find some time to clean out and buy lumber...
--CRC
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Posted - January 01 2014 : 9:47:24 PM
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quote:
Now to find some time to clean out and buy lumber...
Originally posted by PRR 4800Â -Â January 01 2014Â :Â 9:16:48 PM
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Oh and don't feel like you have to overthink the benchwork either. My layout (12'x8' 2-piece "L" utilizing 2" thick extruded foam glued in 2 layers) sits on 32 11x17 paper boxes, in 8 columns 4 boxes high  .
One of those temporary permanent solutions but it works...and I couldn't beat the price (free)!
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - January 01 2014 : 10:20:53 PM
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quote: quote:
Now to find some time to clean out and buy lumber...
Originally posted by PRR 4800Â -Â January 01 2014Â :Â 9:16:48 PM
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Oh and don't feel like you have to overthink the benchwork either. My layout (12'x8' 2-piece "L" utilizing 2" thick extruded foam glued in 2 layers) sits on 32 11x17 paper boxes, in 8 columns 4 boxes high .
One of those temporary permanent solutions but it works...and I couldn't beat the price (free)!
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â January 01 2014Â :Â 9:47:24 PM
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Oh my, Jerry! I must be over thinkin' my benchwork a little! My next trip to Lowe's will cost me right at $150.00 ... That should set my Golden Gate structure of my table & legs.... Then I'll still need a gallon of paint for it !
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Posted - January 02 2014 : 12:03:38 AM
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You mentioned that the basement is unfinished - is it heated and cooled? If so, just move your room down there.
Glenn
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"
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Posted - January 02 2014 : 06:32:50 AM
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quote:
Oh my, Jerry! I must be over thinkin' my benchwork a little! My next trip to Lowe's will cost me right at $150.00 ... That should set my Golden Gate structure of my table & legs.... Then I'll still need a gallon of paint for it !
Originally posted by walt - January 01 2014 : 10:20:53 PM
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Hey microbusss set the bar high with the dumpster cam, I had to come through on the benchwork!
Actually the layout was designed to be portable and sit on 4 - 8 ft. tables. After I retired it and put it in my basement, it was a matter of "spend money on real benchwork or buy another locomotive?" I'll post a pic when I start my own layout thread
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - January 02 2014 : 5:53:00 PM
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With 100 locos and 600 cars how could you not go into your basement???! I would want to display as much of my stuff as possible. You could build a shelf layout along 1 wall just to put stuff on the track and work from there. Lighting is no big deal as florescents are cheap. You don't say where you live so obviously if you are in Minnesota you'll need to do something to control the temperature. You could always partition off your train area so you don't need to finish the entire basement. You could also keep a small workbench in your room to do minor tweaking on your stuff. The basement work area can be used for painting and heavy duty cleaning. Good luck.
rich p
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Posted - January 04 2014 : 9:21:18 PM
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Well, a good part of the benchwork will just be the layout sitting on top of a big old bookshelf that's in the way. I'm planning to build at a level a couple inches above that bookshelf so I have a gap for wiring. And the 100 locos and 600 cars isn't nearly as impressive as it sounds... about half of it is still waiting to be fixed (ensuring I'm all set for at least 5 years in the event of a zombie apocalypse), and the locos that are in working order are all on display. The possibility for a 400-car yard in the basement has been one thing keeping me thinking of building in the basement though.
--CRC
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