|
|
 Posted - November 10 2013 : 11:06:20 AM
|
|
Questions on what to use for building a layout structure. Best height? Use 2x4s or 2x3s? What is best for the top board(s) surface where the track, buildings, etc sit on...?
|
Country:  USA ~
Posts: 6279 ~
Member Since: February 18 2009 ~
Last Visit: March 04 2022
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
 Posted - November 10 2013 : 1:44:40 PM
|
4X8 plywood sheets
but paint it 1st with primer & green or whatever you wants 
Edited by - microbusss on November 10 2013 1:56:14 PM
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 15015 ~
Member Since: February 23 2009 ~
Last Visit: April 05 2026
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 10 2013 : 3:13:35 PM
|
Most guys in my club use 1x4's to build the structure. 2x4's are heavier, and more costly. All depends on what you want (and can afford). 1x4's will shift and buckle some with humidity changes, not sure about 2x4's since most guys rarely use them. There is a movement out there to make a layout structure out of steel, but it requires welding skills, so most don't do that, either. 1x4 wood is the most prevalent material used to build the benchwork. 2x4s are often used to make the legs, as they are sturdier than 2x2 or 1x4 for that piece.
Far as platform wood goes, many use plywood sheeting, 1/4 to 3/8 up to 1/2 thickness, and some then add either Homasote ( a type of thick cardboard-like material ), or pink foam sheets, to deaden the noise, and make adding detailing, contours, etc easier. Sometimes all 3. Plywood gives it strength underneath, and the other two for easier working for scenery and noise deadening. Some guys have used just the 1/2 inch homasote material, but it's hard to find at some stores. And I think more bracing for rigidity is needed with just Homasote as a base. Not sure on that, however.
All that said, you could use other materials, but those are the most commonly used.
As far as height goes, it all depends. Most guys build it at least 40" off the ground, some higher. Many guys like looking at it when it's built higher, others like to look down on it some. I'd say many in my club have it at least 48 inches, some higher. Bending down to work underneath is not easy as we get older, so they build them higher so as not to have to squat or lay down as much. Again, if you are building for yourself, or small children to enjoy, you will have to adjust the height accordingly. Some guys build multi-level layouts, too, so they may run over their heads in mountainous terrain. But I'd say about 4 foot high is average.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 3974 ~
Member Since: January 04 2009 ~
Last Visit: January 11 2019
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 10 2013 : 3:33:03 PM
|
I say use 2x4's. I trust those more than 1x4's. I like 3/8" plywood for my table and not OSB sheeting! The height is up to you and what makes you comfortable. I hope that basement has a way to move humidity out! yes, 2 by's ain't cheap, but, will make such a sturdy layout, you could walk on it!
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 3147 ~
Member Since: May 07 2007 ~
Last Visit: March 12 2026
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 10 2013 : 5:38:12 PM
|
Another note on height: The distance you have to reach matters. If everything is within arm's reach of the edge, you can build higher than if you need to bend at the waist to reach some part of the layout.
Carpe Manana!
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 2416 ~
Member Since: September 17 2013 ~
Last Visit: February 09 2026
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 10 2013 : 8:15:16 PM
|
quote:Another note on height: The distance you have to reach matters. If everything is within arm's reach of the edge, you can build higher than if you need to bend at the waist to reach some part of the layout.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - November 10 2013 : 5:38:12 PM
|
Very good thought scsshaggy.. My layout is gonna be 8 feet wide.. Gonna need to reach the middle from both sides. 36-38 inches works well for me
Microben, Im planning painting the whole thing, legs and all. Won't do the primer step though... Paint doesn't have any problems bonding to new wood...
Jerry & Justin, thank you! I had in mind 2X4 legs for sure. May do it all in that size wood. It's gonna be like doing 5 4x8 layouts... Don't care about the cost, just want a solid good looking structure. As for humidity, the house has a dehumidifier and a ventilation system for the basement. The inspector bragged on this system as being really nice!
Edited by - walt on November 10 2013 9:02:13 PM
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 6279 ~
Member Since: February 18 2009 ~
Last Visit: March 04 2022
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 10 2013 : 8:35:18 PM
|
Might be useful: http://www.sieversbenchwork.com/
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 825 ~
Member Since: December 22 2008 ~
Last Visit: March 16 2015
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 10 2013 : 10:28:03 PM
|
2x4s are way overkill for a train layout. 1x4 frame with two braces across is fine for a basic plywood table. Hell mine is made out of used like 12 foot long 1x4s that I got out of a dumpster when a JC Penney near me closed up.
Personally if I were starting from scratch I'd do it domino-style in 2 foot by 4 foot sections and make six of them, for a 10x6 table with a 2x4 center hole. That way it can be taken apart into managable sections if you ever had to move it.
In fact, my current layout is built that way to an extent, about half of it could be taken apart amd moved easily.
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 956 ~
Member Since: January 27 2008 ~
Last Visit: May 27 2016
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 10 2013 : 10:37:46 PM
|
Walt, for the size of layout you're building I would go with 2x4's.
I used Pine 1x4's for the framework on the back section of my HO train layout. That benchwork only elevates the layout by about ten inches, so it doesn't need to withstand much stress. For my main layout I used Spruce 2x4's. They're a little clunky looking, but much sturdier. Once all the scenery gets done they get hidden anyway.
To top my layouts I've used plywood (3/8" I think) and Styrofoam insulation. I've also heard of people using drop-down ceiling tiles which are supposed to be quite cheap.
|
Country:  Canada ~
Posts: 3448 ~
Member Since: September 22 2006 ~
Last Visit: April 03 2026
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 10 2013 : 10:41:13 PM
|
| I would put some foam insulation board over the top plywood surface. The 1/2" thick stuff does the trick and it's pretty cheap too, about $12 for a 4x8' piece. I've had 5 layouts and I've used foam on 2 of them, it's much better as you don't have to cover up the rough texture of plywood, you can stick trees and road signs in it, and track lays on it better because of the smooth texture. Most foam sheets have a plastic film on them, just grab a loose corner of it and peel it off, otherwise paint won't stick. You can buy it, home depot has the pink stuff and lowe's has the blue. They're just the same, just different colors.
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 332 ~
Member Since: February 24 2012 ~
Last Visit: January 26 2015
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 11 2013 : 12:20:14 AM
|
| FWIW, paint on bare, new, unsealed wood will soak right in there, you may need several coats.
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 956 ~
Member Since: January 27 2008 ~
Last Visit: May 27 2016
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 11 2013 : 01:20:56 AM
|
Chessie & Dacheez, thank you for the info... Haven't had a layout in 35 years! Checking out all options...
Lvrr325, paint does soak into wood creating a heck of a bond... That's what I was kinda telling Ben. The good thing is the whole top surface will get covered up anyway...
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 6279 ~
Member Since: February 18 2009 ~
Last Visit: March 04 2022
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 11 2013 : 04:57:48 AM
|
My dad's layout has a couple 4x8's that form a portion which is older than I am, fiber tie flex track and all. They're just 3/4" 4x8s with some light framing and the legs are steel pipe threaded into a cast piece that bolts to the wood.
Like I said, it's older than I am and has never given any problem with regard to flex or warpage, even through one dissassembly and move and all it's life in damp northeastern basements.
Unless you plan to spend a lot of time climbing on it or using it for a dance stage, 2x4s are overkill.
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 956 ~
Member Since: January 27 2008 ~
Last Visit: May 27 2016
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 11 2013 : 07:45:07 AM
|
quote:paint does soak into wood creating a heck of a bond... That's what I was kinda telling Ben. The good thing is the whole top surface will get covered up anyway...
Originally posted by walt - November 11 2013 : 01:20:56 AM
|
Well, the thing about painting it first is, if you aren't THICKLY covering it, any chips in the detailing will show wood, not green or brown paint, which might match the background scenery better. If you're modeling a city, gray would be better. Modular railroading finds that with all the travels, banging around, etc. that will ding the scenery, if you have an undercoating of paint to sort of match your scenery, it will still blend in. A permanent layout is another thing, so you could probably skip that step.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 3974 ~
Member Since: January 04 2009 ~
Last Visit: January 11 2019
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 11 2013 : 08:49:52 AM
|
quote: Unless you plan to spend a lot of time climbing on it or using it for a dance stage, 2x4s are overkill.
Originally posted by lvrr325Â -Â November 11 2013Â :Â 04:57:48 AM
|
With an 8-foot-wide table, the question of climbing on it is good to consider. Unless you can reach 4 feet into the center, it may be necessary, in your initial construction, to climb aboard to get the scenery built in the middle.
Carpe Manana!
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 2416 ~
Member Since: September 17 2013 ~
Last Visit: February 09 2026
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 11 2013 : 7:46:36 PM
|
Lvrr, overkill ! That's what they tell me about the big block Chevy engines I build ! 
Shaggy, I won't be climbing on it (I hope). I'm tall enough to reach the 4 foot fairly comfortably...
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 6279 ~
Member Since: February 18 2009 ~
Last Visit: March 04 2022
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
babuff
Little Six
Status:
offline
| |
Posted - November 12 2013 : 2:00:55 PM
|
| word of warning here NEVER use MDF sheets. friend of mine did in a very damp basement. you guessed it after 2 yrs it warped horribly. for my grandson's N scale layout I used folding table legs bolted to 1/2 inch plywood. perfect hieght and everything is accessable.
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 185 ~
Member Since: April 16 2013 ~
Last Visit: March 30 2015
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 13 2013 : 4:19:44 PM
|
My current layout I used 2" pink foam insulation board, in 2 layers. I cut rivers out of the top 2" layer, using the bottom layer as the 'riverbed'. Then used all the foam I cut out to use in building some mountains. The stuff is plenty rigid, it currently sits on stacked copy paper boxes without any plywood base whatsoever. Of course that is a temporary situation, would not recommend it as leaning on the layout can be disastrous
http://tycodepot.com/
|
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
Status:
offline
| |
Posted - November 20 2013 : 4:02:01 PM
|
I always thought that if I were to start over, I might use 2" pink foam exclusively, especially for HO or smaller. I remember years ago the late Linn Wescott built an HO project layout with strictly Homasote with no underlayment. It was quite a success. I think pink foam would be firm enough for a layout as I already mentioned. Homasote is overbilled as a sound deadening material. I have had some success with Homasote on top of 1" pink foam, but it still transmits some noise
"S"tring boB
|
|
Posts: 0 ~
Member Since: October 09 2013 ~
Last Visit: December 13 2013
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 20 2013 : 4:42:59 PM
|
I agree with Leo,
I would not use MDF for anything. It is hard to nail to, it breaks easily, it weighs a ton, you have to pre-drill to install screws, and when wet it swells like a sponge. It has so many chemicals it does not even make good fire wood.
Regards, John **********************
Being a cynic has two positive results:
1. You are never disappointed!
2. Sometimes your are pleasantly surprised!
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 886 ~
Member Since: January 11 2012 ~
Last Visit: December 16 2023
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - November 20 2013 : 8:56:49 PM
|
quote:I always thought that if I were to start over, I might use 2" pink foam exclusively, especially for HO or smaller. I remember years ago the late Linn Wescott built an HO project layout with strictly Homasote with no underlayment. It was quite a success. I think pink foam would be firm enough for a layout as I already mentioned. Homasote is overbilled as a sound deadening material. I have had some success with Homasote on top of 1" pink foam, but it still transmits some noise
Originally posted by "S"tring boBÂ -Â November 20 2013Â :Â 4:02:01 PM
|
Totally agree, I'm sticking with the foam. And I second the opinion on MDF, I used that on the layout I built in 2009. What a mistake. Hard to work with, HEAVY....and hard to work with 
http://tycodepot.com/
|
|
|
|
|
Posted - December 05 2013 : 8:24:30 PM
|
WHAT kind of glue is best for holding down railroad gravel, grass, lychen and landscaping materials...?
Walt
Luck, usually comes dressed in work clothes...
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 6279 ~
Member Since: February 18 2009 ~
Last Visit: March 04 2022
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - December 05 2013 : 8:44:52 PM
|
Walt - for gravel (ballast) and grass, the best kind is good old white glue (Elmers), mixed 50/50 (Woodland Scenics calls it Scenic Cement). For lichen and assorted added details such as bushes, etc.....I use Aileens 'Tacky Glue' Gel.
This is what I use but I'm sure you will get a hundred different takes on that. Plus everyone seems to have there own formula for scenic cement and wet water.
http://tycodepot.com/
|
|
|
|
|
Posted - December 05 2013 : 9:38:10 PM
|
I use the white glue mixed with water as well. A few drops of dish soap is supposed to make it easier to spray. Warming it up prior to spraying is another option, but I don't usually bother with that.
If I'm putting down basic ground cover I'll first paint the area a dark brown colour. Once the paint dries I either spray the glue/water or apply it with a brush. The ground foam is then sprinkled on and once dry, spray it with another coat of glue/water. For bushes I just use a glob of white glue.
|
|
Country: Canada ~
Posts: 3448 ~
Member Since: September 22 2006 ~
Last Visit: April 03 2026
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - December 26 2013 : 2:26:35 PM
|
After thinking about my layout table a lot, I have almost decided to use the 2x4s as the frame work and legs of this 8X20 table. I'm also thinking that 4 feet will be the chosen height. At 4 feet, detailing the center of the layout may require a small step stool and a little climbing or leaning on the table at times. So for now, that's what I see as best. My childhood layout was made with a 2X4 frame and legs. Any feedback will be kindly considered !
Edited by - walt on December 26 2013 6:47:20 PM
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 6279 ~
Member Since: February 18 2009 ~
Last Visit: March 04 2022
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - December 28 2013 : 8:43:26 PM
|
I've used 1x4 pine for both my benchwork and for track board as well. pine is much easier to drive spikes into when tracklaying, is much easier to work with when elevating track, and the combination provides me with a layout sturdy enough to walk on.
2x4s are overkill, plus it's harder to attach joists to a 2x4.
for legs, a 1x3 and a 1x4 fastened together longwise in a 90 degree angle will be sturdy enough to hold up your table.
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 613 ~
Member Since: December 22 2013 ~
Last Visit: April 06 2026
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
|
|
Posted - April 07 2014 : 10:39:21 AM
|
Thinking over the weekend that I am very satisfied that I used the 2X4 frame work on my bench... I have already found myself sitting on it, laying on it, and standing on it... Glad I used the overkill method for this build. At times I find myself on the table just because I can...
|
|
Country: USA ~
Posts: 6279 ~
Member Since: February 18 2009 ~
Last Visit: March 04 2022
|
Alert Moderator
|
|
Home
Forums
Events Calendar
Forum Admins & Mods
Register
