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 Posted - July 19 2006 : 11:48:11 PM
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This recently sold on ebay. I've never seen this before by Mantua or Tyco. Seller stated that it is indeed stamped Mantua Tyco on the inside of the plastic shells. The seller seemed to know what they were talking about stating not to confuse it with Varneys Aerotrain.
Does anyone know anything about this?
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 Posted - July 20 2006 : 1:07:04 PM
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Hey,
I believe this is very early TYCO from the 1950s. Perhaps "Blue Box Era", if you would label it. TYCO of the pre-'60s had those light blue packages in many cases. The model appears to be metal, but I think it might simply be the paint job. The paint is not factory from what I would guess. Mantua-TYCO offered this model in the '50s and it was mostly silver with some black and yellow. The engine is fantasy, I think and does not represent any manufactured prototype that ever existed. The passenger cars vaguely resemble either the ACF-Talgo cars. TYCO called this the ACF/Talgo train and never used GM's Aerotrain name.
Naturally, the Aerotrain did exist in plastic thanks to Gordon Varney and his molds are what Bowser has used over the years as a basis for its Aerotrain models in HO-Scale.
Those looking for something a bit more serious in an HO-Scale Aerotrain could also buy brass naturally, but soon might have a Con-Cor Aerotrain to operate. Con-Cor has announced plans to offer an Aerotrain, similar to the quality and style of the recently offered Pioneer Zephyr set. Con-Cor is talking of a Spring 2007 date and around $500, but this would likely be a fine HO-Scale example of the famous Aerotrain.
GM built two examples of the Aerotrain in the '50s and they test ran on such roads as the Pennsy, NYC, UP, Santa Fe, and most notably Rock Island. Rock Island kept the Aerotrain around in Chicago commuter and Peoria Rocket service into the '60s. The Aerotrain was designed to be an inter-city short to medium distance train and came along at a time when most railroads were looking to drop many such services. The lack of interest by railroads and the generally poor performance and response given the Aerotrain contributed to its quick demise.
Both Aerotrain sets have been preserved in museums. One rests in the St. Louis area at the Museum of Transportation and the other I believe is in Wisconsin or Michigan at a museum there.
I do have a scan of an early Mantua-TYCO package that features the Talgo model on my TYCO site:
/tyco/forum/uploaded/Tony Cook/mantua_talgo_box.jpg
http://tycotrain.tripod.com/tycotrains/id64.html
As you can see the "ACF/Talgo" logo is displayed near the model.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/Tony Cook/aerolasv.jpg
For those curious about Con-Cor's plans to introduce an new HO-Scale and possibly N-Scale example, you can find more info on Con-Cor's site:
http://www.all-railroads.com/aerotrain.html
/tyco/forum/uploaded/Tony Cook/the_ae6.gif
Finally, here's a neat link to a site with some good info and pictures on and of the GM Aerotrain:
http://www.carofthecentury.com/the_aerotrain.htm
Tony Cook
HO-Scale Trains Resource
http://ho-scaletrains.net
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Posted - July 22 2006 : 10:16:52 PM
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NYC:
re: Talgo train:
This was offered in numerous incarnations by Tyco/Mantua at beginning of the "blue box" era for Tyco. Offered under Mantua label as engine-only kit, three car kit w/o engine, engine w. cars kit; and ready to run in at least two separate two-tone offerings by Tyco with cars offered in a separate blue box three-car set. Strange as it seems there is a real prototype for this critter, though Mantua's creation is a rather liberal interpretation. I'll dig up and forward the references but Trains magazine ran multiple offerings on American Car and Foundry (ACF) and their ill-fated partnership with Talgo International for the "Talgo Train" which was as big a turkey as the "Aero-Train." The other surviving aero-train resides in the National Railroad Transportation Museum in Green Bay, WI.
for what it's worth,
Magnolia Academy
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 Posted - July 23 2006 : 12:04:50 PM
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Hello,
What I always thought was curious was that this model didn't find itself re-introduced by TYCO during the late '70s or 1980s. I would think during the "Rambo" and "Transformers" and "Turbo Train" period this odd piece might have found some new life. Perhaps the molds remained with the Tyler family-Mantua and the Consolidated Foods and later independent TYCO did not have access to this strange model. I could certainly see it dipped in chrome and part of the product line around 1980, couldn't you?
Tony Cook
HO-Scale Trains Resource
http://ho-scaletrains.net
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Posted - July 24 2006 : 7:12:12 PM
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Hi,
Found a picture of the ACF Talgo and you can see TYCO did take some liberties with its design...
The TYCO Talgo engine actually looks a bit like C&O's TRAIN X. C&O never built this pictured TRAIN X, but I think the engine is similar to what TYCO did for its Talgo model...
Tony Cook
HO-Scale Trains Resource
http://ho-scaletrains.net
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Posted - July 25 2006 : 10:42:28 AM
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Hi,
Forgot to mention where the ACF Talgo and C&O Train X pics came from...they're out of a Motor Books 1997 release New York Central and the Trains of the Future by Geoffrey Doughty.
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/188308928X.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ
It's a great book and covers much more than just New York Central trains.
Tony Cook
HO-Scale Trains Resource
http://ho-scaletrains.net
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Posted - July 27 2006 : 3:30:46 PM
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Talgo-tales
Straight from the pages of Tyco's first catalog appearance of the "train of Tomorrow":
"American Car and Foundry Company, builders of the sensational 'prototype' (my emphasis), cooperated in the design of Tyco's fine replica. It is an achievement not only of model making but of engineering as well."
Tyco's page center headline proclaims," Newest of the New" with the sub-head, "Superb Railroad Models One Hundred Years Apart in Prototype" (the page advertises the T-9 Talgo set on top and T-8 General Passenger set on bottom, hence '100 years apart.')
My point is simply this: I believe John Tyler's designers were faithful to the preliminary ACF Talgo plans as supplied by ACF, attempting to create a model train tie-in much the same as GM Aero-Train and Varney. It seems quite uncharacteristic of model railroad companies of the fifties in general and Mantua in particular to engage in fantasy or speculative designs.
A cursory glance of the Eurotrains web references to the Spanish Talgo 1 design of 1944 will reveal the source of Mantua's design. After all, ACF was licensing North American production thru Talgo of Spain. Note, for example, that Tyco/Mantua Talgo cars are excellent replicas of the extant photos of New Haven RR's initial publicity pix of the McGinnis attempt to sell the Talgo idea to the principal carriers in the NE commuter corridor.
Trains de Talgo, in a bitter irony, found the New Haven Talgo cars sold back to Spain to end their days on that country's only full standard guage line after their failure in the US marketplace in the face of dwindling commuter revenue. This marketplace failure, however, must be viewed in the perspective of the antecedent Talgo/X/Aero publicity hype american railroads generated in their attempt to rekindle the public's interest in RR commuting, JUST AS THEY HAD DONE a generation earlier with the first generation streamliners. Time magazine's banner headline of 6/12/54 "WILL THEY ALL GO TALGO?" is just one example of the publicity blitz that compelled Model Rairoading companies like Varney and Tyco to take up the cause; after all, hadn't the City series and Zephyr streamliners boosted sales to help Louis Marx, Lionel and Flyer survive the lean years of the depression? It is tempting in hind sight to say John Tyler just "backed the wrong horse" but, frankly, if early sixties catalog merchandisers are any indication neither the Varney Aero-Train nor Talgo did much more than languish on dealer shelves. I've looked through several years of old E&H monthly sales catalogs thru the mid sixties and both models could be purchased for a fraction of their original price by 1960; and both were still being offered for bargain basement prices in the mid-sixties.
As for the engine cab design difference in the Tyco/Mantua engine, all I can do is reiterate Tyco's assertion ACF "cooperated in the design of Tyco's fine replica" and point out that Time magazine reports Feb 13, 1956, that Rock Island debuted the "Jet Rocket, a light low train modelled after the Spanish Talgo. Built by ACF industries, Inc., it is the first of the new lighweight trains to be owned by a US railroad...
The four car train, with a General Motors diesel..."
Time is referring to RI's decision to ride Talgo-licensed cars behind a GM Aero-Train engine. The McGinnis-inspired and tested Talgo train fleet on the east coast in 1954 featured Talgo demonstrators dating from 1949. It is the 1949 Talgo-licensed demonstrator, as licensed by ACF and eventually sold only as car-units sans cab to RI, that is probably the prototype supplied by ACF to Tyco. As I stated at the beginning of this essay, Tyco's cab is, in all likelihood, the product of ACF-provided plans and not an exercise in fantasy. The ACF Talgos as eventually supplied to New Haven were redesigned with New Havens' recommended changes and American motive power (Fairbanks Morse "Speed Merchant" and EMD FL-9s). Tyco's investment in tooling and their attempt to anticipate the market have, in the end, made the T-9 Talgo Train a sort-of "Mystery Train."
Magnolia Academy
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