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 Posted - July 03 2013 : 09:38:31 AM
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This is a post in two parts- first the questions I asked in my MR post.
I have an Athearn BB F45 that I obtained mail order back in 1993, but left NIB for many years.
I recently brought it to my workbench to tune up, now that I have become better at such things.
1- I noticed that the frame looked as if it were "dipped" in paint, as the thickness and smoothness of the frame paint actually created radius end edges on the frame where metal corners and edges exist. Was this an artifact of manufacture ( just the way it was made) or a purposeful process to better insulate the frame?
2- I did a partial "Athearn 5-wire" electrical improvement to the chassis, to eliminate the long pick-up strip and will run it for a while as a DC engine before I DCC my layout later his year, when I will put a DCC circuit in and properly finish the electrical for that purpose. I installed a rear LED for the rear two lights, wired in reverse to light up only when the engine moves in reverse. So far, so good.
3- I noticed that various photos if the actual engine make the "dark gray" hood paint look black- both in still and video clips. My friend Antonio helped me with the paint question, so I guess I will live with that, but I am still suspicious about the color....
4- I was wondering if I should do any motor repowering, as it runs ok now ( with the electrical improved wiring) but still sounds like... Well, an Athearn BB! I was considering replacing the plastic transmission linkages with R/C flexible plastic fuel line, which helped on another two-shaft motor ( but without flywheels) to quiet things down.
Or is the Athearn noise coming from the gears in each truck?
Now for part 2:
I posted these issues in my MR post and only received one reply- from Antonio on the paint issue.
There were over 100+ views of my post, but only that lone reply.
Meanwhile, some guy wondering about using spray can paint indoors receives 7 responses, and other rather arcane question posts received far more than I obtained. If I had received just one other intelligent on- point response to my questions, I would have been satisfied, but in this situation, I am a modeler seeking information, not just asking a fool question or a redundant one (because I researched first- then posted after not getting any data).
It just seems that my post was not considered serious ( but the indoor paint sprayer's was?....).
If anyone here can offer advice, it will be gratefully received.
Siouxlake/Ron
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Posted - July 03 2013 : 09:53:53 AM
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(psst, o.k everybody.... don't reply to Ron's post. See what he does) 
1. My guess, they were dipped. It's quick and easy, gets all the surfaces covered.
2. (not a question). Sounds good, though.
3. Pictures can be deceiving... type of camera, lighting, computer monitors. Plus engines in service can have varying degrees of color due to exhaust soot, dirt, etc.
4.If I had a NIB Athearn, I'd run it like it is. I'm not a big fan of the fuel hose drive. It does work and even might be necessary in some applications.
Part 2. If you want to start a discussion on any model forum: mention painting.
Unspoken expectations are premeditated failures.
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Posted - July 03 2013 : 10:26:50 AM
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Ron,
I'm sorry, I normally "read" what you have posted, BUT, I have noticed (and I'm not quite sure if this is whats going on for others as well) BUT, if I get distracted by any sort, the screen that I'm on, "refreshes" and I loose all "currently active topics" and then trying to find them, isn't easy.....Specially when the forum time frames for each of us is different and then I have noticed things to happen that will refresh a screen and that leaves me high and dry....
Sadly, it has to be with the sites programming, as I had ran into this on my website and I believe, I got that remedied now.....
IF others don't reply to this, then sadly, all I can say is they don't have much to say which, in normal circumstances is no the case with me, if if I "see" the posting and have a thought or so on the matter of that posting....Which brings me to:
1.They were dipped, covers, and makes for a GREAT base!
2.I add this to all of my DC loco's, and works well!
3.Modeling color shades can be deceiving as mentioned, matching up color is even worse.....Specially from black and white pictures as "black" can look silverish or even have a blue hue to it. Blue on the other hand, WILL look black!
4.I would try to clean out the trucks, use hand soap that's got a grit in it.....This will remove the old grease and oil, PLUS the scrubbing sensation of the grit will remove flash from the gear boxes IF you couple the drive shafts to a moto tool, to spin the gears WITH the hand cleanser inside the gear boxes like grease.....
Once done, clean it out thoroughly, and replace the grease with new stuff of your liking and then this should help the noise a little. Another thing to do, is put something to separate the shell from the frame, to keep the shell from megaphoning the noise through it.....
IF this isn't enough, then, and only then, I'd replace the drive shafts! PLEASE PM me concerning the shafts.....
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid... 
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - July 03 2013 : 6:17:20 PM
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quote:| I'm sorry, I normally "read" what you have posted, BUT, I have noticed (and I'm not quite sure if this is whats going on for others as well) BUT, if I get distracted by any sort, the screen that I'm on, "refreshes" and I loose all "currently active topics" and then trying to find them, isn't easy.....Specially when the forum time frames for each of us is different and then I have noticed things to happen that will refresh a screen and that leaves me high and dry.... |
Once you have the Active Topics page on your screen, open any thread you want to read in a new tab. As long as you leave the Active Topics tab open it won't refresh.
As for the original post, those are fairly specific questions that I don't think many people would know the answer to. Virtually everyone who does model railroading has had experience with paint at one time or another. That's probably why you got so few replies. I know I've asked questions like that before where I got one or no replies
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Posted - July 03 2013 : 6:34:11 PM
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quote:
Once you have the Active Topics page on your screen, open any thread you want to read in a new tab. As long as you leave the Active Topics tab open it won't refresh.
Originally posted by DaCheez - July 03 2013 : 6:17:20 PM
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If you also look to the right under the [ XX Active Topics ] line, you will see a line box, and it will say Don't reload automatically, or Refresh every XX minutes/hours. Mine is set to NOT refresh. Make sure that box to the right and under Active Topics line says that.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
Edited by - AMC_Gremlin_GT on July 03 2013 6:35:00 PM
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Posted - July 03 2013 : 6:46:28 PM
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quote: quote:| I'm sorry, I normally "read" what you have posted, BUT, I have noticed (and I'm not quite sure if this is whats going on for others as well) BUT, if I get distracted by any sort, the screen that I'm on, "refreshes" and I loose all "currently active topics" and then trying to find them, isn't easy.....Specially when the forum time frames for each of us is different and then I have noticed things to happen that will refresh a screen and that leaves me high and dry.... |
Once you have the Active Topics page on your screen, open any thread you want to read in a new tab. As long as you leave the Active Topics tab open it won't refresh.
As for the original post, those are fairly specific questions that I don't think many people would know the answer to. Virtually everyone who does model railroading has had experience with paint at one time or another. That's probably why you got so few replies. I know I've asked questions like that before where I got one or no replies
Originally posted by DaCheez - July 03 2013 : 6:17:20 PM
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Cheez, this is GREAT news! I'll have to remember that! Now, I'm off to see what AMC is talking about as well! Maybe its a setting I have to re-set!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - July 03 2013 : 6:50:47 PM
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quote: quote:
Once you have the Active Topics page on your screen, open any thread you want to read in a new tab. As long as you leave the Active Topics tab open it won't refresh.
Originally posted by DaCheez - July 03 2013 : 6:17:20 PM
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If you also look to the right under the [ XX Active Topics ] line, you will see a line box, and it will say Don't reload automatically, or Refresh every XX minutes/hours. Mine is set to NOT refresh. Make sure that box to the right and under Active Topics line says that.
Jerry
Originally posted by AMC_Gremlin_GTÂ -Â July 03 2013Â :Â 6:34:11 PM
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Jerry, this must be under my "profile" account as I don't see it on the main page, BEFORE I hit reply with quote OR the "fast reply".....Would that be a correct assumption?
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - July 03 2013 : 8:05:23 PM
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Thanks guys for some intelligent answers- I also managed to get a forward LED for lighting the two front lights installed, so all I plan to do now is create properly sized grab irons for the doors, attach them and hand paint them, then install the Athearn railings and stanchions and hand paint those as well. I cleaned and relubed the gears with synthetic ATF, then ran the engine back and forth on my test track for 15 minutes to break it in a bit.
I will post the completed engine in a few days.
Ron
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Posted - July 03 2013 : 8:07:28 PM
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quote:
Jerry, this must be under my "profile" account as I don't see it on the main page, BEFORE I hit reply with quote OR the "fast reply".....Would that be a correct assumption?
Originally posted by EM-1Â -Â July 03 2013Â :Â 6:50:47 PM
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EM-1, it's on the Topics page. Once you log in, it says there are X active topics, when you click on THAT, it takes you to the Topics page, and that's where this box is down a line and to the right of X active topics. On the left above all the topcs it says Forum, then Active Topics then a box which indicates Since Last Visit Date, or whatever you have it set at, then over to the far right is the box where it says Don't Reload Automatically.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
Edited by - AMC_Gremlin_GT on July 03 2013 8:10:11 PM
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Posted - July 04 2013 : 12:17:44 AM
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quote:Thanks guys for some intelligent answers- I also managed to get a forward LED for lighting the two front lights installed, so all I plan to do now is create properly sized grab irons for the doors, attach them and hand paint them, then install the Athearn railings and stanchions and hand paint those as well. I cleaned and relubed the gears with synthetic ATF, then ran the engine back and forth on my test track for 15 minutes to break it in a bit.
I will post the completed engine in a few days.
Ron
Originally posted by siouxlake - July 03 2013 : 8:05:23 PM
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I haven't heard about lubing with synthetic ATF. I'm curious about how that works out.
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Posted - July 04 2013 : 12:33:52 AM
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quote: quote:
Jerry, this must be under my "profile" account as I don't see it on the main page, BEFORE I hit reply with quote OR the "fast reply".....Would that be a correct assumption?
Originally posted by EM-1Â -Â July 03 2013Â :Â 6:50:47 PM
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EM-1, it's on the Topics page. Once you log in, it says there are X active topics, when you click on THAT, it takes you to the Topics page, and that's where this box is down a line and to the right of X active topics. On the left above all the topcs it says Forum, then Active Topics then a box which indicates Since Last Visit Date, or whatever you have it set at, then over to the far right is the box where it says Don't Reload Automatically.
Jerry
Originally posted by AMC_Gremlin_GTÂ -Â July 03 2013Â :Â 8:07:28 PM
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I'm not sure what setting your screen is at Jerry, BUT, I don't have to log in, each visit. I'm automatically logged in!
Having said that, I don't have this little "box" to check, or un-check....However, I did find a drop down menu to adjust how long the "active topics" is, or goes back in time, I should have said.....I'll see if I change that, if things change in a more positive way!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - July 04 2013 : 12:35:42 AM
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I didn't mention what tyupe of soap to use with grit in it to clean out the gear boxes of flash on the plastic gears and polish the metal parts as well.. Soft Scrub works GREAT! Then rinse it out, replace with your choice of lube and off to the mainline you go!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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Posted - July 04 2013 : 07:32:23 AM
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quote:
Having said that, I don't have this little "box" to check, or un-check....However, I did find a drop down menu to adjust how long the "active topics" is, or goes back in time, I should have said.....
Originally posted by EM-1Â -Â July 04 2013Â :Â 12:33:52 AM
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Yes, then you're on the correct page - look to the right of that drop-down , and there's another one on the other side of the page ( on mine anyway ) that says Don't Reload Automatically, or Reload every X minutes - it's just a drop-down like the Active Topics one is, just across from it.
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
Edited by - AMC_Gremlin_GT on July 04 2013 07:36:40 AM
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Posted - July 04 2013 : 10:42:56 PM
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Funny, I've never even noticed the automatic reload drop-down menu. It wasn't enabled by default, so I never paid attention to it.
As for the F45, most of the noise comes from either the armature and flywheels being out of balance, or the universal shafts. The gearing is pretty quiet, unless there's burrs or an eccentric gear. The earlier steel flywheels could easily be out of balance since they were mounted on the plastic universal bushing. An armature can be balanced by propping it across two upright razor blades to find the heavy spot and drilling into it until enough steel is removed, or by laying epoxy putty into the gaps on the opposite side to counterbalance it.
The noisiest part of the Athearn shafts is usually the spline shaft and the socket it fits into, which can be loose and wobble quite a bit. Sometimes the spline is just too short, and in some BB locos I've just reversed the end of the loco they're on for a better fit. They can also be too long so that the motor and truck push against each other, causing noise and sometimes derailment issues.
The great thing about blue box drives is that like an old car they're easy to work on and fine tune. As John said, polishing the gears with mild abrasive like Novus plastic polish can do wonders. I first make sure they turn freely on their pins, and remove any flash with an X-Acto if the truck seems to bind. Shimming the worms with NWSL thrust washers also helps performance.
Btw, I was one of a few who addressed these sorts of issues on the other forum, but I don't hang out there anymore.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - July 05 2013 : 02:24:08 AM
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Jerry,
I'll have a look for that! THANKS for posting the picture that you did, as it makes it a lot more easy to follow!
Nelson,
The shaft work you mention about the spline, something I have done is use a REALLY heavy grease, that's plastic compatible (heavy marine grease normally) and just "coat" the end that goes in in the whole surface of the spline that has the key on it, NOT the keyway! This fills that "void" and lessons the noise while still maintaining the actual part, and if its done sparingly as it should be, it won't "spatter" inside the engine shell!
As for removing flash from the gearing, after being removed from the trucks pins they rotate on, the edge where the casting is done is where the culprit is....a simple turn by hand from a counter sink for metal work does wonders! THEN, look through the hole where the pin goes through to see if anything is on the inside, most times, no.....
Hope this helps!
~John
Many have tried to, and failed, ya just can't repair stupid...
Do NOT try to Idiot-Proof anything!!!! God, will simply create a better......IDIOT!
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