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 Posted - August 07 2012 : 4:32:28 PM
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My son just inherited 7 TYCO engines from the 1970s. Only 2 of them ran, but one has stopped and the other started and ran great, but was smoking like mad. Needless to say, that one was grabbed by me pretty darn fast. You can probably guess that we'd like to get these trains running again. My son and I are willing to rebuild. Given what I've read about these engines, I will be needing diagrams and parts and advice so we can begin working. The first engine my son wants to work on is the TYCO F-9 amtrak. Please help with anything you can.
Thanks,
TrainMom
Edited by - TrainMom on August 07 2012 5:58:04 PM
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Posted - August 07 2012 : 8:14:03 PM
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Hi,
Tyco trains are still great for young kids to play and grow into the hobby with, but the engines can be finicky. Here's some quick basic advice in a nutshell:
First off, the Amtrak engine you have is a model of an EMD F7 locomotive. It was made with two different motor types: First with the original Tyco "MU-2" motor from the late 50's... then with the "PowerTorque" (or PT) motor which was phased in during the mid-70's, and used in almost all Tyco engines thru the 90's.
The MU-2 is generally regarded as the superior and more durable motor... however they do require basic care, and unfortunately when they go they can be difficult to work on, especially for a casual hobbyist unfamiliar with maintenance and hobby tools, etc.
The PT had its benefits, but was more easily killed. Fortunately they are generally easy to work on, and parts are abundant from used engines.
The procedures to work on one are completely different from the other.
To tell which you have, look at the bottom of the locomotive. If the trucks (wheelsets) have metal plates on the bottom, that is the MU-2. If they are plastic with three screws in the bottom, that is a PowerTorque.
(Further confusing things, the Amtrak engine was also one of just a few made for a very short time with a "hybrid" plastic MU-2. Hard to describe that one without going into detail, so I'll try to bet on odds you don't have that one, but watch it be the case now that I said that  )
If you have the PT, I created a comprehensive repair and rebuild guide for PowerTorques a couple years ago... you may find it here: http://goingincirclez.com/TycoTrains/Guide/PowerTorqueRepair It goes into pretty intense detail, but it's worth reading first if you're new.
If you have the MU-2, there is no known comprehensive guide online, though we can possibly still help here. You can't work on an MU-2 without doing some serious work to get it apart, and getting it to stay reassembled can be tricky. It's nothing too difficult, but most beginners probably aren't interested if they don't have the tools and experience, etc. I did recently acquire an official Tyco service manual from 1974 which does have diagrams and parts descriptions of the Amtrak engine, but it's kind of low on repair details. If you think this would help I can scan the pages and send them to you.
Also, feel free to post pictures for more assistance.
Good luck!
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Posted - August 07 2012 : 8:18:51 PM
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I myself is very familiar with repairing these myself. I have a hoard of Tyco parts. Just ask for help and you shall recieve.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - August 07 2012 : 9:00:46 PM
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Hi TrainMom, and welcome. I'm not sure which drives your locos have, but given the evidence (and the smoking motor) I'll lay odds that they have PowerTorque trucks, which are a lot less robust than the older MU-2 drives. The smoking is usually caused by oil on the motor brushes that can usually be blasted out with contact cleaner without having to take the motor apart. Hair and dried grease on the gearing can slow or stall these motors, too.
Here's a thread with a PT service video by another member. I hope it helps. There were never any diagrams for these power trucks.
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2963&SearchTerms=service
Here's a link to some very good contact cleaner you can usually get at Home Depot.
http://www.amazon.com/QD-Contact-Cleaners-Style-Container/dp/B000BXKZVA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_5
Both motor bearings will need a very small drop of oil after it's been sprayed out. I use a toothpick or a needle applicator for this. For a truck that's really gummed up, a soak in 90% alcohol and a scrub with a tooth brush works well too.
[Edit: Well, looks like two people beat me to it while I was researching threads. /tyco/forum/uploaded/NickelPlate759/icon_mi_4.gif]
The Tyco Depot
Edited by - NickelPlate759 on August 07 2012 9:03:15 PM
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Posted - August 07 2012 : 11:10:25 PM
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Hello, and welcome! For startes dont let your son do anything yet unless you know what he's doing  Nelson, justin and Spiderj76 already summed it up for you. All of us have our own helpful knowlidge when it comes to repairing. It's great that your son wants to repair them because it reminds mes a lot of myself! i'm only 16 but i've had a layout with my brother since I was 1! I didn't start repairing trains till I was around 11. Now I'm familiar with just about every engine that ever rolls into my shop  I have a bunch of tyco models but not as much as most of the guys one here. They can be very tricky and frustrating.. Not to discourage you though, when maintained properly they are true works of art! You just have to be careful with PowerTorques, even some of the slightest fiddling with can mess them up.
Question, are any of these engines steam locomotives? Cause most of the PT tyco steamers had smoke units but I think you mean the diesels and is caused by the commutator and or brushes. My advice is buying some Labelle lubricant its the best thing to ever happen to my engines! It can make your engines smooth and quiet. For example, Labelle light oil #107 is special for being able to give your engines a friction free run meaning you can put a small amount of it on the brushed and or commutator and that will release the engine of any hesitant operation. Also thats where a lot of the noise in tyco models comes from it will reduce the noise dramatically. If you do by some Labelle my advice is buy the starter set that has #102, #106, and #107. #102 is a thick oil used for worm gears mainly but can be used on drive gears. #106 is grease that only goes on the drive gears or any gear if you choose. #107 as i mentioned is a light oil that is meant to lube drive shafts and basically all moving parts. Hope this helps! Have fun!
I buy, repair, and collect
http://scvr.weebly.com/
http://seyboldlocomotiveworks.weebly.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDeputation?feature=watch
Hyde.
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Posted - August 08 2012 : 10:30:27 AM
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quote:I myself is very familiar with repairing these myself. I have a hoard of Tyco parts. Just ask for help and you shall recieve.
Originally posted by Redneck Justin - August 07 2012 : 8:18:51 PM
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Thanks! I will certainly get in touch when we need these things.
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Posted - August 08 2012 : 10:36:34 AM
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quote:
... Both motor bearings will need a very small drop of oil after it's been sprayed out. I use a toothpick or a needle applicator for this. For a truck that's really gummed up, a soak in 90% alcohol and a scrub with a tooth brush works well too....
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â August 07 2012Â :Â 9:00:46 PM
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Thanks for the help! We've scrubbed the motor and I've read that sewing machine oil can be used. We have "Lionel oiler", and I was wondering if I can use that. It was a "donation" from a train-fan neighbor.
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Posted - August 08 2012 : 10:43:32 AM
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quote:
...Question, are any of these engines steam locomotives? Cause most of the PT tyco steamers had smoke units but I think you mean the diesels and is caused by the commutator and or brushes. My advice is buying some Labelle lubricant its the best thing to ever happen to my engines! It can make your engines smooth and quiet. For example, Labelle light oil #107 is special for being able to give your engines a friction free run meaning you can put a small amount of it on the brushed and or commutator and that will release the engine of any hesitant operation. Also thats where a lot of the noise in tyco models comes from it will reduce the noise dramatically. If you do by some Labelle my advice is buy the starter set that has #102, #106, and #107. #102 is a thick oil used for worm gears mainly but can be used on drive gears. #106 is grease that only goes on the drive gears or any gear if you choose. #107 as i mentioned is a light oil that is meant to lube drive shafts and basically all moving parts. Hope this helps! Have fun!
Originally posted by SCVR66Â -Â August 07 2012Â :Â 11:10:25 PM
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Thanks so much for all your advice. You sound a lot like my son. He's been all about trains since he could walk. He's interested in how the trains work, but doesn't have much patience with the actual fixing. I imagine by the time he is 10-11, he will be ready to do things on his own.
No, we just have diesels. Where can I get the Labelle kit you mentioned?
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Posted - August 08 2012 : 11:58:29 AM
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quote:(Further confusing things, the Amtrak engine was also one of just a few made for a very short time with a "hybrid" plastic MU-2. Hard to describe that one without going into detail, so I'll try to bet on odds you don't have that one, but watch it be the case now that I said that )
Originally posted by spiderj76Â -Â August 07 2012Â :Â 8:14:03 PM
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Guess which motor we have? Yep the "hybrid". But I took the plunge and connected it to the power and my cleaning efforts have paid off! Runs great! My son went bananas when the motor revved, and yelled "Wicked!" This is one happy mom. Now I just have to learn how wire everything up  Well, I purposely started with the worst, thinking that I couldn't make it worse. Didn't realize what I was in for My son and I will have fun figuring out this next part of the puzzle.
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Posted - August 08 2012 : 12:18:19 PM
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Thanks so much for all your advice. You sound a lot like my son. He's been all about trains since he could walk. He's interested in how the trains work, but doesn't have much patience with the actual fixing. I imagine by the time he is 10-11, he will be ready to do things on his own.
No, we just have diesels. Where can I get the Labelle kit you mentioned?
Originally posted by TrainMom - August 08 2012 : 10:43:32 AM
[/quote]
Anytime, yeah i've been brought into the train world since i was 1 and i havent looked back since. Just like your son I aquired a collection of tyco locomotives though my dad gave them to me from when he was a kid, now i have almost 100+ locomotives! Shows where most of my money goes And yeah sounds a lot like me, me i'm more fond of actually rebuilding or repairing engines rather then running them. May seem odd but I enjoy the journey of bringing and old loco back to life and I have a layout that I run all my engines on but i'm always working on something
Here's where you can order the lubricant set for a steal price! http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Labelle-HO-O-S-G-Lubricant-Set-p/lab-1001.htm
I did make a long video the other day on how to lubricate ho scale locomotives, steam and diesel. I haven't uploaded it to youtube yet being its over 20 minutes long! I will today or tommorow and i used my labelle lubricants and I describe how to use each lubricant, it should be simple to follow along. i'll pass on the link when the upload is done.
I buy, repair, and collect
http://scvr.weebly.com/
http://seyboldlocomotiveworks.weebly.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDeputation?feature=watch
Hyde.
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Posted - August 08 2012 : 2:31:52 PM
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This photo shows the wires to the plastic MU motor truck.
The larger wire toward the front (of the photo) goes to a wiper that picks up power from the axles of the motor truck. The smaller wire soldered to that same terminal goes to the headlight bracket.
The wire toward the back of the photo goes to the axle wiper in the front truck.
There is a smaller wire coming from the front truck that goes to the light bulb also.
Hope the photos can help with wiring this type locomotive.
Ray
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Posted - August 08 2012 : 4:13:36 PM
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quote:
Thanks for the help! We've scrubbed the motor and I've read that sewing machine oil can be used. We have "Lionel oiler", and I was wondering if I can use that. It was a "donation" from a train-fan neighbor.
Originally posted by TrainMom - August 08 2012 : 10:36:34 AM
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No problem. That plastic MU-2 truck is easier to service than a Powertorque, and in some ways is easier than the old metal MU-2 because those were riveted together. If the oiler has a tip like a hypodermic, then yes, you'll be able to apply a small drop of oil with it right on the bearings. Go easy with it, but they aren't as finicky as the PT motors which are easy to over-oil.
I'm not sure if sewing machine oil is plastic safe, although modern sewing machines must have a lot of plastic parts. Petroleum based oils like 3-In-1 can turn plastic brittle over time, but to be honest I used it on a lot of my locos before I knew better, and they are all doing fine.
The Tyco Depot
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