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 Posted - April 30 2013 : 3:41:39 PM
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post 154
Just back from a long round trip to the doctor. Scheduled trip to visit the granddaughter coming up in 10 minutes, so, when I get back, I will start by dragging out the FA's, then the box with some of the Lionel cars.
Ain't this fun!
Dave
Edited by - toptrain on August 14 2015 10:00:03 AM
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Posted - April 30 2013 : 9:23:44 PM
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Try to do this in groups. First off, it seems I have placed some in an alternate location, so I will be looking a bit later for them.
This one, A and B unit, 0565 and 0575, single power, but that makes no difference, as they came to me in pieces, along with all the rest.
Interestingly, the A unit has Blombergs, and the B unit has Flexicoils.
The one shot upside down of the rear truck shows the easy fix for broken tabs. Drill the end, very short screw. Did that years and years ago.   
Dave
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Posted - April 30 2013 : 9:28:01 PM
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AFT 5504, pair of A units, one missing truck parts. Blombergs.  
Dave
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Posted - April 30 2013 : 9:31:31 PM
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post 157
5400, single drive, Blombergs. Interesting to note as we go along the differences...like the front apron steps. Later are shots of roof differences. 
Dave
Edited by - toptrain on August 14 2015 10:01:07 AM
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Posted - April 30 2013 : 9:34:30 PM
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5600, blue Santa Fe, Blombergs, somebody has painted the fuel tank and trucks silver (I like it better), and patched the coupler hole. No idea why.
Dave
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Posted - April 30 2013 : 9:37:51 PM
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5400 and 0565 (I think). Note broken horns to identify roof and loco number from side shot.
Side screens, different, cooling fan different, apron steps different, rood details different, etc., etc.
Dave
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Posted - April 30 2013 : 9:46:58 PM
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Post 160
Unknown Seaboard chassis. Lionel style gearboxes.
Twin pancake motor.
Michigan base on pancakes.
Gear/belt chassis and spare bits. When those gear covers come loose, 2-56 or JB Weld....
Hong Kong pankcake.
Hong Kong fuel tank.
Dave
Edited by - toptrain on August 14 2015 10:02:05 AM
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Posted - April 30 2013 : 9:49:37 PM
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Rubber motor insulators and weight hold downs.
Weights for the above engines.
Dave
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Posted - April 30 2013 : 9:54:57 PM
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post 162
NYC Geep. Built be Lionel, but Athearn. The only real difference was the handrail stanchion holes are not drilled out. Should I ever decide to run this, it would A) get an Athearn chassis, and B) a full set of Athearn handrails.
New York...
Dual drive, twin HUGE headlamps.
Couple of spare motors.
Now to go stuff them back in their boxes.
Dave
Edited by - toptrain on August 14 2015 10:03:29 AM
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waw47
Hudson
Status:
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Posted - April 30 2013 : 9:57:49 PM
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| The 0565 & 0575 were made in the 1960s when Lionel was still an independent company. The rest of your FAs were made during the Fundimensions period 1974 -1977. Fudimensions was a division of General Mills, who had the maufacturing rights to Lionel at the time.
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Posted - April 30 2013 : 10:13:28 PM
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| Yup. Some say Hong Kong, some Moulded in Canada.....
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Posted - May 01 2013 : 3:28:06 PM
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post 165
I'll add to the Lionel GP7s with 2 of my own. These have Athearn drives. 0596 and 0598.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on August 14 2015 10:05:49 AM
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Posted - May 02 2013 : 06:56:30 AM
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The 0565 FA has a later chassis under it. So far as I know all pre-Funsimensions HO FAs had that rubber band transmission in them. Some GP7s got a direct gear drive at one end.
The GP7 shell is a poor clone of an Athearn. Side by side numerous differences are apparent, possibly in an attempt to simplify their dies. (Lionel would copy Athearn for years, I happened to notice an O27 SD45 the other day is copied from Athearn right down to the too-wide hood, even though it's O).
Your SCL frame is an AHM era Mehano GP18, the shell would be an SCL Bicentennial unit. Drive will fit any era GP18, or with the truck bottom/sideframe pieces replaced it will go in a later RS11 or RS2. Key on those is the tab that holds the coupler not be broken.
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Posted - May 30 2013 : 2:54:35 PM
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According to the books I have on the history of Lionel their 1957 line was made by Rivarossi and most of the 1958 line was made by Athearn. They items were regular production and were suppose to have a small lionel trademark to distinguish them. Starting in 1959 they made their own products
tcox009
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Posted - May 30 2013 : 4:32:31 PM
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quote:
The GP7 shell is a poor clone of an Athearn. Side by side numerous differences are apparent, possibly in an attempt to simplify their dies.
Originally posted by lvrr325Â -Â May 02 2013Â :Â 06:56:30 AM
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I remember looking at the differences when I got my Lionel Geep. Yes, to later Athearn numerous differences. However, not many at all to early Athearn (hood mount horn).
I think the consensus was Athearn wouldn't change dies just for a run for Lionel, but Irv would go dig out the old dies.
Dave
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Posted - May 30 2013 : 9:04:59 PM
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post 169
quote:According to the books I have on the history of Lionel their 1957 line was made by Rivarossi and most of the 1958 line was made by Athearn. They items were regular production and were suppose to have a small lionel trademark to distinguish them. Starting in 1959 they made their own products
Originally posted by tcox009Â -Â May 30 2013Â :Â 2:54:35 PM
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Back then also they had Fleischmann pacific locos.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on August 14 2015 10:07:01 AM
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Posted - May 30 2013 : 9:14:04 PM
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quote: quote:
The GP7 shell is a poor clone of an Athearn. Side by side numerous differences are apparent, possibly in an attempt to simplify their dies.
Originally posted by lvrr325Â -Â May 02 2013Â :Â 06:56:30 AM
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I remember looking at the differences when I got my Lionel Geep. Yes, to later Athearn numerous differences. However, not many at all to early Athearn (hood mount horn).
I think the consensus was Athearn wouldn't change dies just for a run for Lionel, but Irv would go dig out the old dies.
Dave
Originally posted by ScaleCraft - May 30 2013 : 4:32:31 PM
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Biggest difference was the cab. They were both different and the Athearn was removable. The Lionel was a part of the body casting. The other big difference was the dynamic breaks. On the Lionel it was a separate casting comprising of the large fan and the 2 side intake vents. Also Lionel came without handrails. The holes were not even drilled out for them.
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
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Posted - May 30 2013 : 10:38:58 PM
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| Drilled holes for handrails was probably an extra step not performed. I thought for sure the cab came off my Lionel. Have you compared the Lionel shell to the early Athearn shells? Just asking. I think all of my Athearn shells are later style (roof mount horns).
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Posted - June 30 2013 : 2:12:41 PM
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post 172
A Lionel 0642LT 2-4-2 I got today. old post 136 shows another 0642 that came without a tender.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on August 14 2015 10:07:33 AM
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Posted - July 06 2013 : 07:06:17 AM
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quote:
I remember looking at the differences when I got my Lionel Geep. Yes, to later Athearn numerous differences. However, not many at all to early Athearn (hood mount horn).
I think the consensus was Athearn wouldn't change dies just for a run for Lionel, but Irv would go dig out the old dies.
Dave
Originally posted by ScaleCraft - May 30 2013 : 4:32:31 PM
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Except that there are no "old dies" for the Athearn GP7/9. They ran that thing all the way through until Horizon took over, if it wasn't already worn out by then. In the mid-late 1970s it cracked and was filleted for a repair where the long hood joins the deck and examples from then into the early 1980s show this repair, which was eventually corrected properly.
The shells differ as follows: Lionel eliminated the separate applied covers for the step areas next to the cab on the long hood end - the hole is there on the shorter side, but I've yet to see one with the cover. Lionel's shell has the cab molded in place and the dimensions are off somewhat. Lionel's shell has molded in letterboards for ease in heat stamping. Lionel's shell the entire dynamic brake piece is separate - Athearn only the side blisters are separate, the fan and hatch are molded in place. And the handrail holes are eliminated on Lionel.
The Lionel GP9 die was also the basis for the 1970s Lionel geep, when the line resumed it began with much of the same old tooling. At that time it was cleaned up and improved somewhat.
There are numerous examples of cloning by manufacturers who wanted to get their own products released but did not have the budget to start from scratch. It was easier to take an existing product and change a few details and how would your competitor prove you copied them when the item is a scale model of a real thing?
- Cox chopnose GP7/9 is otherwise also a clone of Athearn, even the horns.
- Tyco F9 and Penn Line/Life-Like F7 are clones of Athearn/Globe
- Tyco Auto-Loader is a clone of Athearn's piece made for Lionel to the point that an early photo shows one with Athearn autos on it
- Early AHM cars made by OK/Crown are almost perfect clones of Athearn cars
- Pemco's C430, streamline caboose, and some other items are clones of Tyco pieces
- Lionel's U18B is a clone of an Athearn U30B shortened to fit on their existing GP9 chassis
There are plenty of other examples, that's just off the top of my head.
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Posted - July 07 2013 : 12:41:31 PM
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post 174
* 0863 , SP flat car with special attached deck to hold 3 car trucks.
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on August 14 2015 10:08:12 AM
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Posted - July 25 2013 : 11:47:04 PM
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Lionel HO CN caboose...
Mike
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Posted - July 31 2013 : 08:28:42 AM
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post 176
** Photos of 0565 FA1, and 0575 FA2 .
Entering turntable.
Going for a ride.
With passenger train.
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on August 14 2015 10:08:51 AM
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Posted - July 31 2013 : 08:59:24 AM
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| Nice train Top, i'm digging that Lionel. I told my wife the other day that I was thining about collectin Lionel HO.....She frowned of course.
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 Posted - July 31 2013 : 5:59:54 PM
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quote:Nice train Top, i'm digging that Lionel. I told my wife the other day that I was thining about collectin Lionel HO.....She frowned of course.
Originally posted by GG-1 Guy - July 31 2013 : 08:59:24 AM
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Tell her it's much smaller than O gauge or standard gauge
tcox009
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Posted - August 11 2013 : 10:52:36 PM
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post 179
0873 Lionel Horse Transport Car , Fast Express, missing the horses.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on August 14 2015 10:09:33 AM
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Posted - August 13 2013 : 3:19:26 PM
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post 180
** I got this 0851 PRR rectifier at the Greenberg show last weekend. I am in the process of replacing missing steps. that is the white plastic.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on August 14 2015 10:11:05 AM
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Posted - August 14 2013 : 10:15:26 AM
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post 186
At the Greenberg train show Saturday I got this Lionel car also. It is the Athearn made for Lionel Wabash box car. Now for what I know and have seen, there may be not other Wabash box car sold by Lionel. Does anyone have a picture of a made by Lionel, or a Rivarossi made for Lionel, Wabash box car. I don't have the Greenberg guide for Lionel HO so I don't know. The catalog pictures are drawings and not photos. They show the same paint scheme on a box car with the Lionel car number on it. 0864-250. This number is not on the Athearn made Lionel car. As you can see it is WAB 6287.
* My photo of the car clearly show the Lionel L in a circle.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on April 01 2014 07:38:52 AM
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Posted - April 01 2014 : 07:42:37 AM
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post 187
I found this one at the March Greenberg train show.
# 78571, RATH Packing Co., Stock car.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - April 02 2014 : 01:45:51 AM
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Actual EMD 50th loco was a GP38 or GP40 IIRC.
Greenberg book just notes the overstamp NP loco exists, and that the known originals have the error on one side only. Apparently worth enough some have been forged.
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Posted - April 02 2014 : 9:32:03 PM
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Actual GM50 was a GP38 or GP40 IIRC.
Greenberg discusses the overstamp loco but it's not mentioned in the guide with values, just in the section on oddballs and forgeries. Real ones are all like that only on one side, but apparently it's worth enough some were faked.
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Posted - April 02 2014 : 10:55:38 PM
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I have to share my horse car Frank. I got like 4 other cars with it for $10 and like new! Fun car to run.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - January 17 2015 : 8:34:00 PM
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post 191
Today I got the chicken car ! #78575. A NYC stock car in jade green.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - January 17 2015 : 9:15:12 PM
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do want the chicken & Rath cars! hehe
Here is my Lionel ji-raff car 
yes do have the thing to make ji-raff duck
Still owe the guy the Lionel Accessories magazine 
Edited by - microbusss on January 17 2015 9:15:49 PM
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Posted - January 17 2015 : 9:59:26 PM
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quote: Ah, yes, the giraffe car. I believe they still make something like this in O gauge, not totally sure, though.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - January 19 2017 : 11:03:59 AM
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my want list has gotten smaller since I now has the AMF & Spalding boxcars
Will locate pix later since I can't locate them on my 7-8 SD Cards
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Posted - February 02 2017 : 4:44:13 PM
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My Lionel Ho GP-7s. Seven together . There are 2 NYC ones with the same number 0598 .
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on February 02 2017 4:59:19 PM
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Posted - February 02 2017 : 4:46:06 PM
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Here is the N&W GP7 in black.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - February 02 2017 : 4:48:56 PM
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Chessie System C&O #5610 GP7.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - February 02 2017 : 4:51:52 PM
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Now the American Flyer GP-7.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - February 02 2017 : 4:53:39 PM
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This is the Gold 50th Anniversary B&O GP-7. The second 0598 NYC is seen to the left.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
Edited by - toptrain on February 02 2017 4:57:47 PM
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Posted - February 02 2017 : 4:56:58 PM
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The New York Central GP-7 0596 and 0598. There are two 0598 ones.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - February 02 2017 : 5:32:43 PM
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| the gold B&O & American Flyer are on my list hehe
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Posted - June 05 2017 : 06:05:11 AM
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** A new to me Lionel Ho car is the Rocket Fuel tank car. Found it at Hamburg train show yesterday. I think I paid fifteen bucks for it. Not the best background for a detailed photo.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - June 05 2017 : 09:42:34 AM
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| A most unique piece, great find.
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Posted - June 07 2017 : 9:25:57 PM
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quote:** A new to me Lionel Ho car is the Rocket Fuel tank car.
Originally posted by toptrain - June 05 2017 : 06:05:11 AM
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Um, does it have a split frame truck that fits over a central pin? if so, that's a Marx, not a Lionel, I have a few Marx Rocket Fuel cars. I've never seen a lionel HO version of this car before, is all.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
Edited by - AMC_Gremlin_GT on June 07 2017 9:27:35 PM
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Posted - June 08 2017 : 05:44:20 AM
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quote: quote:** A new to me Lionel Ho car is the Rocket Fuel tank car.
Originally posted by toptrain - June 05 2017 : 06:05:11 AM
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Um, does it have a split frame truck that fits over a central pin? if so, that's a Marx, not a Lionel, I have a few Marx Rocket Fuel cars. I've never seen a Lionel HO version of this car before, is all. I
Jerry
Originally posted by AMC_Gremlin_GTÂ -Â June 07 2017Â :Â 9:25:57 PM
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** Jerry, it is a Lionel Ho car. I just took a photo of its bottom. It does say " The Lionel Corporation, Made in New York, NY, US of America. It's number 0815 places it with the early New York made cars.
Frank
 
toptrain
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Edited by - toptrain on June 08 2017 06:06:54 AM
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Posted - June 08 2017 : 7:45:46 PM
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That's cool, that's the first Lionel version of that Rocket Fuel car I've ever seen.  I didn't even know Lionel had made one. They must be extremely rare then.
Jerry
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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Posted - August 09 2017 : 1:26:54 PM
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Here is the Lionel Alaska Coal car. #08361.
frank
toptrain
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Posted - August 09 2017 : 9:13:48 PM
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one I just got in the Mail from Canada on Monday!
not the greatest of shape but do need the boxcars & caboose for this set hehe
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