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 Posted - September 21 2020 : 8:41:16 PM
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As of today I now own something I would call a Locomotive-of-a-Lifetime. This is the real deal 1953-1955 Tyco T-215 Diesel Sharknose.
There are a several tiny chips and paint defects, but for it's age it is beautiful. This is the factory paint job on full metal construction, and it predates the metal sharks with horns. And it has the original box.
Much to my amazement. I tossed this old beauty on a piece of electrified track. It wasn't happy at first, but then it freed up with little effort. This thing runs like a top. A 65 plus year old motor that runs flawlessly. When they say Ready-to-Run, they really did mean it!
But here's the kicker. I paid under twenty dollars for this beauty (before shipping) from an incredibly nice seller. It was one of the best transactions I've done on 'the site'. Truthfulky I think I will declare this the locomotive of my lifetime. This thing is like a Preproduction. It's better to my eyes, and quite frankly I just love this thing. Now to find some actual loop and hook cars for this beauty. I don't have any!
Aaron Anderson
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Posted - September 22 2020 : 11:42:20 AM
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Incredible Shark, and an incredible deal! Nice Aaron.
Please post these pics under the "Tyco Diecast Sharks" thread to preserve it along with the others which members have shared over the years. 
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - September 22 2020 : 12:49:13 PM
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quote:Incredible Shark, and an incredible deal! Nice Aaron.
Please post these pics under the "Tyco Diecast Sharks" thread to preserve it along with the others which members have shared over the years.
Originally posted by RP model railroads - September 22 2020 : 11:42:20 AM
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I will later on when I have more time.
Aaron Anderson
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Posted - September 22 2020 : 1:45:31 PM
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| Oh wow
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Posted - September 22 2020 : 3:24:44 PM
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| What's also cool about this is that the real Baldwin sharks were brand new at the time, being built from 1950 to 1953. So the model is just about as old as the real thing.
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Posted - September 22 2020 : 5:50:35 PM
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I got one too!
need the B unit hehe 
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Posted - September 22 2020 : 7:04:50 PM
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quote:I got one too!
need the B unit hehe
Originally posted by microbusss - September 22 2020 : 5:50:35 PM
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There's a B unit? Very interesting...
Aaron Anderson
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Posted - September 23 2020 : 12:25:29 AM
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Wowzer, wowzer, wowzer. That piece belongs in
the Smithsonian!
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Posted - September 23 2020 : 1:32:03 PM
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| Just noticed, replace the black with dark green and you have an E,J&E locomotive!
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Posted - September 23 2020 : 4:26:28 PM
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quote:Just noticed, replace the black with dark green and you have an E,J&E locomotive!
Originally posted by BlaxlandAlex3Â -Â September 23 2020Â :Â 1:32:03 PM
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I would never paint this a bit. It's too pristine.
Aaron Anderson
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Posted - September 23 2020 : 5:07:19 PM
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Glad for that, for a repaint would probably devalue it like
taking a Brillo pad to an antique coin. That it runs is like
finding a 300 year old bottle of rum in a pirate ship wreck that
can still be imbibed.
Edited by - Chops124 on September 23 2020 9:20:23 PM
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Posted - September 23 2020 : 9:43:06 PM
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| Notice the unusual amount of overspray around the back side...
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Posted - September 24 2020 : 07:24:59 AM
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no, no, no. I don't mean repaint it! I just noticed that I think that's the scheme they were going for!
the curve at the front and arrangement is spot on, but the orange is actually on the top, not green.
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Posted - September 24 2020 : 08:25:29 AM
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Absolutely beautiful locomotive Aaron! 
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Posted - September 24 2020 : 4:48:05 PM
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quote: quote:I got one too!
need the B unit hehe
Originally posted by microbusss - September 22 2020 : 5:50:35 PM
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There's a B unit? Very interesting...
Originally posted by A-A-RONÂ -Â September 22 2020Â :Â 7:04:50 PM
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yeah go to the bottom of this page
http://tycotrain.tripod.com/tycobrownboxdiesels/id18.html
I have that exact Shark loco 
Edited by - microbusss on September 24 2020 4:48:27 PM
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Posted - September 24 2020 : 9:54:02 PM
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I have never seen the orange and black with no road name version in my 60 years plus 20 on Ebay.
Edited by - walt on September 24 2020 9:55:45 PM
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Posted - September 24 2020 : 10:54:53 PM
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quote:Notice the unusual amount of overspray around the back side...
Originally posted by walt - September 23 2020 : 9:43:06 PM
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That's indicative of tape masking.
It's a beautiful locomotive and quite a find....I'm just a little skeptical that the paint job is original on it. I've seen factory overspray before but not like that.
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Posted - September 24 2020 : 11:17:31 PM
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quote: quote:Notice the unusual amount of overspray around the back side...
Originally posted by walt - September 23 2020 : 9:43:06 PM
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That's indicative of tape masking.
It's a beautiful locomotive and quite a find....I'm just a little skeptical that the paint job is original on it. I've seen factory overspray before but not like that.
Originally posted by Crown Vic - September 24 2020 : 10:54:53 PM
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Exactly what I was thinking , Crown Vic. Not beating the piece up , and with no road name. Did Tyco do that?
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Posted - September 25 2020 : 01:06:46 AM
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quote: quote: quote:Notice the unusual amount of overspray around the back side...
Originally posted by walt - September 23 2020 : 9:43:06 PM
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That's indicative of tape masking.
It's a beautiful locomotive and quite a find....I'm just a little skeptical that the paint job is original on it. I've seen factory overspray before but not like that.
Originally posted by Crown Vic - September 24 2020 : 10:54:53 PM
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Exactly what I was thinking , Crown Vic. Not beating the piece up , and with no road name. Did Tyco do that?
Originally posted by walt - September 24 2020 : 11:17:31 PM
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The other thing is that the inside of the shell looks to be completely painted, which seems odd for an early factory piece.
It just looks so fresh and bright for a very old piece.
Again, not detracting from it at all - it is a wonderful find. But before we declare it to be original there needs to be a little more documentation, especially from a collector's perspective.
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Posted - September 25 2020 : 01:54:30 AM
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I too, questioned the paint on the inside of the piece. I just didn't say anything as I am certainly not an expert on Tyco engines...
Edited by - walt on September 25 2020 03:33:13 AM
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Posted - September 25 2020 : 04:13:17 AM
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quote:I too, questioned the paint on the inside of the piece. I just didn't say anything as I am certainly not an expert on Tyco engines...
Originally posted by walt - September 25 2020 : 01:54:30 AM
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Well there's no brush marks on it, and there are several little chips across the body. In each of those chips I can only see one layer of paint. I don't see more than two colors of paint. Plus it looks just like other examples I've seen of this to a spot on match. If it was repeated it was done by a real professional to match it to original, but it looks too perfect. This was built in the early 50s, back when nothing was considered to be excess, including craftsmanship. Plus it has the original box. I think this was a piece time forgot. I'll take some high quality photos of the paint, and I think it will help you see.
It does match this unit with the chips on the front steps. The rest may have occured later on.
I'm pretty sure it's the real deal. Either way, it is the right body for the unit, so it's still quite rare.
Aaron Anderson
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Posted - September 25 2020 : 5:05:32 PM
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had to look up as to what my Shark pic was under
now you know why I wants the B unit hehe
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Posted - September 26 2020 : 5:29:23 PM
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They are quite hard to find, but I've seen at least 2 of these appear on Ebay before, so YES Tyco made these and YES I agree, that is the original paint. The chips verify there is only 1 coat of paint on the shell.
Now, it is possible that someone down the road took a plain diecast Shark shell, and painted it to resemble the original black over orange scheme, hence the overspray which looks a lot like airbrush or spray paint, and if they did, they were spot on with the striping. This is a theory, that I don't believe. Seems like factory quality, from that age, which changed big time a decade later, or less than a decade really, with improved factory paint, plastic train shells, and more attention to detail.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - September 27 2020 : 09:42:02 AM
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quote:They are quite hard to find, but I've seen at least 2 of these appear on Ebay before, so YES Tyco made these and YES I agree, that is the original paint. The chips verify there is only 1 coat of paint on the shell.
Now, it is possible that someone down the road took a plain diecast Shark shell, and painted it to resemble the original black over orange scheme, hence the overspray which looks a lot like airbrush or spray paint, and if they did, they were spot on with the striping. This is a theory, that I don't believe. Seems like factory quality, from that age, which changed big time a decade later, or less than a decade really, with improved factory paint, plastic train shells, and more attention to detail.
Originally posted by RP model railroads - September 26 2020 : 5:29:23 PM
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RP you may be entirely correct.
As for the paint chips - that is inconclusive. Most good repaints start with a complete strip of the old paint.
It is all subjective, and without some kind of "provenance", impossible to verify either way. I am mostly going by my own eye on the paint - it looks exactly like it would if I had done it myself, before touching up any of the inevitable masking tape overspray faults.
My intent is not to bash the piece, but to keep some healthy skepticism before pronouncing it an original example.
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Posted - September 27 2020 : 4:12:39 PM
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There's no way to prove that claim though.
The bottom has just been really over sprayed. If you know anything about Tyco, you know that clean paint lines weren't their specialty. I'll repeat myself to be extra clear. There is no other paint under the orange, and that paint is far too clean for a home job. The truck screws don't look to have ever been removed, and it is the right body style for this scheme. It is the real deal, I have the original box for it. I know that it's real for a fact!
Aaron Anderson
Edited by - A-A-RON on September 27 2020 4:13:29 PM
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Posted - September 27 2020 : 4:41:08 PM
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quote: It is the real deal, I have the original box for it. I know that it's real for a fact!
Originally posted by A-A-RONÂ -Â September 27 2020Â :Â 4:12:39 PM
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It's your opinion, no more than that. You can't prove that any more than I can prove the opposite.
Which is really a moot point anyway. If you like the loco, it's all good. Being a repaint only takes away from a pure collector value, nothing else.
This site should have some credibility in determining true collector pieces. Simply proclaiming something is 100% original is meaningless unless you have a way to back it up. That's not me, that's the collector market.
Enjoy your locomotive, it is an incredible find.
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Posted - September 27 2020 : 7:20:47 PM
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i removed my comments having read this link below,its sure a mystery
http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7544
catfordken
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Posted - September 27 2020 : 7:51:03 PM
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Being a car /truck painter for many years, I was stripping bikes, trains and painting them well at 10 years old. Kind of a natural thing for me. To me the orange inside the body is much heavier than over spray! On the ends, the paint has fully covered the inside. I found a pic of an old metal shark the has nearly no over spray. 
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Posted - September 27 2020 : 8:57:50 PM
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Here are my thoughts to back up my own opinion.
1. The color scheme is right for the body. No horns, open pilot, indicating a 1953-55 body. This color scheme was only found on that unit. Plus the box is marked for this diesel.
2. If you could just feel the paintwork on this unit. It feels like the paint on both my Pacific and my Mikado, and the Pacific is only a few years newer than this. It feels the exact same.
3. If this was somebody's home job, it was a real old-worlds craftsman. This is a spot on match to a factory unit! Plus this paint is far from brand new. It's chips and scratches indicate prior use, and is far from new.
I don't know where the seller got it from, but I think it was just hidden away in some collectors stash for many a decade. I don't know. I just think it's a cool old unit.
The only other thing it could be is a grey one of these that got sprayed orange, however the black is over spraying onto oranges not vice versa.
Aaron Anderson
Edited by - A-A-RON on September 27 2020 9:00:11 PM
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Posted - September 28 2020 : 01:07:41 AM
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The link Catfordken posted has these photos in it. Note the multi colored shark has zero overspray on the inside. Nor has it a nearly completely painted inside. In all of my years with Tyco, I have never seen the inside of one Tyco piece of any kind have paint on the bottom or inside a piece, It's almost like they set the piece down on something and painted them.
As far as a spot on, match. There seems to be nothing to compare the piece to. Photos don't work. I have seen cars in a hot rod magizine and said, man , I gotta have that color. Go to the paint store only to find the color was quite different than it looked in the photo.
I was thinking Microbuss could look at his but silver over metal it would be hard for him to determine if it had paint inside. As Crown Vic noticed, The black mistake spray on the rear, is another obvious error that I have never seen on a Tyco piece of any kind to that degree.
However, enjoy your old piece!
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Posted - September 28 2020 : 07:46:45 AM
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| Every single time a member here finds a prototype, or pristine original, theres always others saying it's fake. Even if it is fake, it looks good enough to be true. Dont spoil the man's day. He paid 20 bucks for it, and for a die cast 50s shark, that's still a killer deal. If he likes it, that's all that matters.
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Posted - September 28 2020 : 09:03:35 AM
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quote:Every single time a member here finds a prototype, or pristine original, theres always others saying it's fake. Even if it is fake, it looks good enough to be true. Dont spoil the man's day. He paid 20 bucks for it, and for a die cast 50s shark, that's still a killer deal. If he likes it, that's all that matters.
Originally posted by BlaxlandAlex3Â -Â September 28 2020Â :Â 07:46:45 AM
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If giving an honest opinion on a piece presented as the first RTR Shark made is considered an attempt at "spoiling a man's day"....... 
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Posted - September 28 2020 : 2:40:53 PM
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First, I wouldn’t know a first run Tyco from a hole
in the ground. That being said, the deductive, point-
counter-point discussion is quite interesting.
So, to sum up, it is a question of original paint versus
a repaint. It is already established the shell is from the ‘53 to
‘56 period. The question is if this is a first run ‘53.
My question is does masking, overspray, and the paint
looking too fresh exclude this from being a first run
original?
If this was a first run is it not entirely possible it was
a little goofed or masked up as it came down the line?
Or could it be a work shop prototype stuffed in a box
and shipped off? What is the likelihood that Tyco ever
saved their first issue for posterity?
Has anyone ever seen a repaint job to match a Tyco
first run?
Again, I have no idea what I am talking about. My
wife will confirm that.
Edited by - Chops124 on September 28 2020 2:44:34 PM
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Posted - September 28 2020 : 9:38:20 PM
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quote:Every single time a member here finds a prototype, or pristine original, theres always others saying it's fake. Even if it is fake, it looks good enough to be true. Dont spoil the man's day. He paid 20 bucks for it, and for a die cast 50s shark, that's still a killer deal. If he likes it, that's all that matters.
Originally posted by BlaxlandAlex3-September 28 2020: 07:46:45 AM
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I will begin by stating that this Shark, or rather the black-over-orange scheme has been debated here in the past, as at least 1 previous member stated that they found one, and others were quick to say that it was simply a repaint.
Now, fast forward to Aaron's Shark, an exact copy of what the other member had found, yet clearly distinct with its own paint chips, etc. That means one thing, that Tyco did produce their diecast Shark in this scheme, definitely.
Now, to the masking evidence, etc, perhaps this unit was originally painted by Tyco in this scheme, and overtime the paint became bad, so someone stripped it, and repainted it to match the original scheme. Nonetheless, whether we can agree on whether the paint is original or not, we know for sure that Tyco made a Shark like this, between 1953 to 1955. At least 2 people over the course of history have gotten one in their hands which had the same scheme, and I personally have seen and lost in bidding on one on Ebay, painted the exact same way. There is no room to debunk this, this Shark was made by Tyco in this paint scheme and it is hard to find, obviously.
This is not a prepod, by the way. Tyco did sell these, as at least 3 have surfaced over time.***
Ultimately, this Shark is a model of Tyco's black-over-orange livery which they did produce on their earliest diecast Sharks. The paint isn't indicative of being original, but hands down, this is very nice vintage Tyco locomotive, either the real deal or an extremely close imitation of Tyco's earliest known Shark scheme.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Edited by - RP model railroads on September 28 2020 9:51:02 PM
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Posted - September 28 2020 : 10:34:21 PM
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A measured reply, RP. I forgot to mention that Walt, an expert
in paint (btw, how is the Stude?) wisely noted that there can
be a drastic difference betwen a photograph of paint versus
the actual object.
Color is the reflected wavelength, all the other color wavelengths
being absorbed, that the refractory lense of the eye percieves.
I don't think we can firmly say it isn't an original because the
paint is to fresh, or too bright. As Walt describes, it is a highly
subjective experience.
And what of the masking? Was it something gigged up by the
shop? It still would not amaze me if Tyco, in the rush to get
every piece out the door to generate cash, would not throw
out a prepod just to fill an order, or is that impossible???
One thing is sure, first run anythings- computers to jet planes
(737 on my mind) tend to be flawed in the shop, and are
not infrequently jammed out the door (Chevy Chevette, "it
will drive you happy.)"
And back to what RP is saying, why go to all that effort to
replace an original pennant paint job that would be hard
to do, and not terribly interesting given that decals were
abundant. This being an imitation just doesn't grab me.
Lastly, the box. The man has the box. What are the
chances it is a random box from something other
Shark? I think the box has to be farily strong provenance.
JMOP.
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Posted - September 29 2020 : 08:32:41 AM
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| Very well thought out responses, RP and Chops.
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Posted - September 29 2020 : 10:23:55 AM
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quote:
Ultimately, this Shark is a model of Tyco's black-over-orange livery which they did produce on their earliest diecast Sharks. The paint isn't indicative of being original, but hands down, this is very nice vintage Tyco locomotive, either the real deal or an extremely close imitation of Tyco's earliest known Shark scheme.
Originally posted by RP model railroads - September 28 2020 : 9:38:20 PM
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Agreed, no argument to that at all.
Well said!
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Posted - September 29 2020 : 10:31:42 AM
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quote:A measured reply, RP. I forgot to mention that Walt, an expert
in paint (btw, how is the Stude?) wisely noted that there can
be a drastic difference betwen a photograph of paint versus
the actual object.
Color is the reflected wavelength, all the other color wavelengths
being absorbed, that the refractory lense of the eye percieves.
I don't think we can firmly say it isn't an original because the
paint is to fresh, or too bright. As Walt describes, it is a highly
subjective experience.
And what of the masking? Was it something gigged up by the
shop? It still would not amaze me if Tyco, in the rush to get
every piece out the door to generate cash, would not throw
out a prepod just to fill an order, or is that impossible???
One thing is sure, first run anythings- computers to jet planes
(737 on my mind) tend to be flawed in the shop, and are
not infrequently jammed out the door (Chevy Chevette, "it
will drive you happy.)"
And back to what RP is saying, why go to all that effort to
replace an original pennant paint job that would be hard
to do, and not terribly interesting given that decals were
abundant. This being an imitation just doesn't grab me.
Lastly, the box. The man has the box. What are the
chances it is a random box from something other
Shark? I think the box has to be farily strong provenance.
JMOP.
Originally posted by Chops124Â -Â September 28 2020Â :Â 10:34:21 PM
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Chops, any objections or disagreements I have regarding this Shark concerns that it was stated, or at least strongly implied, that it was an all original item in fact.
At that level, some kind of documentation is required other than stating it looks like it, because you have then entered the realm of the collector.
I can't answer the question why someone would do anything with a locomotive. Take a cruise through ebay and ask that question!
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Posted - September 29 2020 : 11:08:51 AM
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A fair point, Crown Vic. The mystery intrigues me more than
if this is the real deal or a repaint. The discussion has been
interesting. Many similar debates occur in paleontology.
The generally accepted principle is that humans did not
enter the North American land mass prior to 15,000
years ago, tops. And then, from what is now the
Bering Strait, which closed up behind them, like a door being
slammed shut.
Presently, a Mexican archeologist is insisting he has found human
tools dating to 30,000 years ago. Which would obviate
all research to this point.
The debate continues along very similar lines to the one we
are having about this Tyco piece. And that is a pleasure.
As to the Mexican prehistoric tools, ahhhhh, looks to be like natural
rock fall that are sharp and pointy. Unlikely to be ancient tools in
view of that and circumstantial deduction, like where are the bones
that these tools were chopping?
Yeah, the overspray is a little tough to explain away, unless one can
come up with other examples of other times Tyco oversprayed their
early production models.
Edited by - Chops124 on September 29 2020 11:11:39 AM
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Posted - October 01 2020 : 03:08:37 AM
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quote:A measured reply, RP. I forgot to mention that Walt, an expert
in paint (btw, how is the Stude?) wisely noted that there can
be a drastic difference betwen a photograph of paint versus
the actual object.
JMOP.
Originally posted by Chops124Â -Â September 28 2020Â :Â 10:34:21 PM
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Stude is coming along. Posted pics earlier on another thread. Owner is building a garage for the car. May have it till spring!
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Posted - October 01 2020 : 04:33:13 AM
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What I have figured out on this engine. I know the paint on the body is original. I know that for a fact. It's too much like a Tyco paint job. The paint on the inside may or may not be original. I look at this thing a lot each day. It's too close to be a fake job in my opion...
Aaron Anderson
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