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Posted - October 27 2019 : 2:28:08 PM
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Hi all, I have an old hallmark models H10-44. My only brass piece, and it's a literal train wreck. The mechanism itself is perfect and runs beautifully, but the hood on the shell was not soldered properly and is askew. Normal solder does not seem to flow properly on brass. What solder do I need to properly fix it again?
Also, where could I get some brass wire to make handrails for it? They are all missing.
And what could I use to replace the screen exhaust thing on top? It is all corroded.
And what do I use to clean it and help keep its shine? I tried Brasso, but it just gets corroded again.
Help would be greatly appreciated. Such a beautiful loco deserves to look the part.
Pics will come later!
Thanks!
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Posted - October 27 2019 : 11:38:27 PM
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Quite the project, there. I wouldn't know where to begin. Here's one link:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/156076.aspx
I've never tried to make a handrail, ever. Let me, us, know how that works for you.
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Posted - October 28 2019 : 08:16:04 AM
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Alright.
Um.
I got the hood and everything aligned!
...... With the extent of a blowtorch to melt the solder.
Uhhhhggggggg. I feel really bad about this. Especially since I BURNED my only brass locomotives shell. I'm sure I can get it off, but we live and learn.
I honestly think it looks kinda cool, like weathering! I'm going to try and fix it up using the advice in the link chops sent me, thanks!
I'll keep this topic updated....
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Posted - October 28 2019 : 09:42:05 AM
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Looks to be a most interesting piece, that drive train looks particularly rugged compared to the plastic things we are now afflicted with. I take it you're going to leave it in its brass state, no paint?
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Posted - October 28 2019 : 3:55:09 PM
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Those are the handrails on the body's side! To keep shiny, clear it. Polish it and then wash in acetone with gloves on. Let it dry. New gloves on and then clear over it. It'll keep the shine and the brass won't corrode, etc.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - October 28 2019 : 4:12:36 PM
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This has me intrigued. Looked on eBay, and all I could find where globby puddles of white metal with lots of flash.
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Posted - October 28 2019 : 4:53:20 PM
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quote:Those are the handrails on the body's side! To keep shiny, clear it. Polish it and then wash in acetone with gloves on. Let it dry. New gloves on and then clear over it. It'll keep the shine and the brass won't corrode, etc.
Originally posted by Redneck Justin - October 28 2019 : 3:55:09 PM
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Thank you!!!! There are actually some handrails on the front and rear that are missing. Look at a pic of an H10-44 and you'll see them. They were included on these models
Do you think the cleaning will get the burn off?
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Posted - October 28 2019 : 4:54:48 PM
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quote:Looks to be a most interesting piece, that drive train looks particularly rugged compared to the plastic things we are now afflicted with. I take it you're going to leave it in its brass state, no paint?
Originally posted by Chops124Â -Â October 28 2019Â :Â 09:42:05 AM
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Oh yeah, that drive train runs as smooth as silk. I am going to leave it in its brass state, once I get the burn marks and old brasso remnants off
Edited by - BlaxlandAlex3 on October 28 2019 4:56:11 PM
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Posted - October 29 2019 : 9:26:55 PM
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Good luck on this project! I, unfortunately, would be of little assistance as I know nothing about brass model trains. Sorry. :(
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Bamos
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Posted - October 30 2019 : 2:49:01 PM
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First off I am no expert on soldering . But a torch is overkill if you get it to hot you will have bits popping of everywhere. You need an iron that's not to cold meaning the solder won't stick. And the solder wont flow unless there is flux on the part it's what breaks the surface tension. As for the beautiful finish on most collecters brass it's just brass colored paint an clear coat.
Bill
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Posted - October 31 2019 : 08:11:25 AM
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The little bit I can see of that old Hallmark drive looks more like a old International Model Products drive. frank
toptrain
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Posted - November 01 2019 : 7:09:36 PM
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quote:First off I am no expert on soldering . But a torch is overkill if you get it to hot you will have bits popping of everywhere. You need an iron that's not to cold meaning the solder won't stick. And the solder wont flow unless there is flux on the part it's what breaks the surface tension. As for the beautiful finish on most collecters brass it's just brass colored paint an clear coat.
Originally posted by Bamos - October 30 2019 : 2:49:01 PM
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I always use flux, but yeah, I'm going to get a 60watt iron. Redneck Justin said that's the amount of watts you need.
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Posted - November 01 2019 : 7:10:48 PM
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quote:Good luck on this project! I, unfortunately, would be of little assistance as I know nothing about brass model trains. Sorry. :(
Originally posted by RP model railroads - October 29 2019 : 9:26:55 PM
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That's alright! I have no experience as well
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Posted - November 04 2019 : 08:13:27 AM
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We have made progress! "Fairbanks" now is all clean, most of the notable areas of brasso gunk are gone, and I fixed some imperfections in the chassis with the trucks. A test run yielded that everything is A OK! I screwed the shell onto the chassis for the first time since my dad bought him for me at my first train show. Over 7 years ago! Now it is time to work on cosmetic stuff. I will have to find suitable brass wire to make the handrails. Shouldn't be too hard. Brass wire is easy to bend. Does anybody know where I can get some? Pics to come later
Edited by - BlaxlandAlex3 on November 04 2019 08:14:03 AM
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Posted - November 04 2019 : 10:34:08 AM
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In the picture, your model appears to use a hand rail stanchion that's common across a lot of brands and is usually drilled for .020" wire, so I assume that's the size wire you need.
Clover House has straightened brass wire and coils of phosphor bronze wire. The Phosphor bronze is springy so it's a bit tricky to get bent just how you want it, and coming in a coil, it won't make as straight of a railing. On the other hand, it comes in .020" diameter. The straightened brass wire comes in .018" which is pretty close, and would be easier to shape. http://cloverhouse.com/Cart/
K&S Precision Metals has round brass rod in .020", that really amounts to brass wire that's nice and straight and is a good starting point for hand rails. If you have a local hobby shop, it may have a selection of K&S products. Many do. Otherwise, you can order online from K&S. http://ksmetals.com/
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - November 04 2019 : 4:42:59 PM
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quote:In the picture, your model appears to use a hand rail stanchion that's common across a lot of brands and is usually drilled for .020" wire, so I assume that's the size wire you need.
Clover House has straightened brass wire and coils of phosphor bronze wire. The Phosphor bronze is springy so it's a bit tricky to get bent just how you want it, and coming in a coil, it won't make as straight of a railing. On the other hand, it comes in .020" diameter. The straightened brass wire comes in .018" which is pretty close, and would be easier to shape. http://cloverhouse.com/Cart/
Thank you!!
K&S Precision Metals has round brass rod in .020", that really amounts to brass wire that's nice and straight and is a good starting point for hand rails. If you have a local hobby shop, it may have a selection of K&S products. Many do. Otherwise, you can order online from K&S. http://ksmetals.com/
Originally posted by scsshaggy - November 04 2019 : 10:34:08 AM
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Posted - November 04 2019 : 5:05:10 PM
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Here's the pictures, as promised. I'm not TOTALLY concerned with making him shine, because in the series, Fairbanks is the villain, so he should look a bit grubby. The burn areas I couldn't get actually look a bit like weathering!
All that's left now is to take care of the missing handrails!
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Posted - November 04 2019 : 5:20:06 PM
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Wow - that locomotive looks great!
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in Heaven." - Matthew 5:16
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Posted - November 04 2019 : 5:39:23 PM
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quote:Wow - that locomotive looks great!
Originally posted by RP model railroads - November 04 2019 : 5:20:06 PM
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Thank you!!
I just found out that as Scsshaggy said, my local True Value carries the straight 0.20 brass wire I need! Handrails.. Here I come!
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Posted - November 04 2019 : 10:32:44 PM
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I think your handrails are mostly already installed. It would be good to check prototype photos first. Many first generation diesels did not have handrails along the outside of the walkway. Rather, there was just one long grab iron running along the hood of the locomotive, as is shown on your model. This may seem rather odd at first, but keep in mind that the direct predecessors to these first generation diesels, steam locomotives, also did not have handrails on the outside of the running board, but rather just one long grab iron running along the boiler. Railings on the front and rear decks, and next to the steps would be good to add.
See this photo of H 12 44 Fairbanks Morse Weyerhaeuser #1 at Snoqualmie, WA. https://www.trainmuseum.org/images/locomotive%201.jpg
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/weekendrailroader?blend=1&ob=video-mustangbase
Edited by - weekendrailroader on November 04 2019 10:34:46 PM
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Posted - November 05 2019 : 07:01:48 AM
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quote:I think your handrails are mostly already installed. It would be good to check prototype photos first. Many first generation diesels did not have handrails along the outside of the walkway. Rather, there was just one long grab iron running along the hood of the locomotive, as is shown on your model. This may seem rather odd at first, but keep in mind that the direct predecessors to these first generation diesels, steam locomotives, also did not have handrails on the outside of the running board, but rather just one long grab iron running along the boiler. Railings on the front and rear decks, and next to the steps would be good to add.
See this photo of H 12 44 Fairbanks Morse Weyerhaeuser #1 at Snoqualmie, WA. https://www.trainmuseum.org/images/locomotive%201.jpg
Originally posted by weekendrailroader - November 04 2019 : 10:32:44 PM
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Yes, I am aware. Sorry i did not clarify. the handrails I mean are the ones that gi across the front and back, and there are two other small ones that are at the front as well. No, I am not putting them along the entire running board. Here are some pics showing which ones I mean.
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Posted - November 05 2019 : 07:03:15 AM
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quote: quote:I think your handrails are mostly already installed. It would be good to check prototype photos first. Many first generation diesels did not have handrails along the outside of the walkway. Rather, there was just one long grab iron running along the hood of the locomotive, as is shown on your model. This may seem rather odd at first, but keep in mind that the direct predecessors to these first generation diesels, steam locomotives, also did not have handrails on the outside of the running board, but rather just one long grab iron running along the boiler. Railings on the front and rear decks, and next to the steps would be good to add.
See this photo of H 12 44 Fairbanks Morse Weyerhaeuser #1 at Snoqualmie, WA. https://www.trainmuseum.org/images/locomotive%201.jpg
Originally posted by weekendrailroader - November 04 2019 : 10:32:44 PM
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Yes, I am aware. Sorry i did not clarify. the handrails I mean are the ones that are across the front and back, and there are two other small ones that are at the front as well. No, I am not putting them along the entire running board. Here are some pics showing which ones I mean.
Originally posted by BlaxlandAlex3Â -Â November 05 2019Â :Â 07:01:48 AM
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You can even see a small brass wire sticking up out of the front from where they used to be.
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Posted - November 05 2019 : 08:02:12 AM
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This part of the hobby is very rewarding, and I don't mean money. Carefully removing the body from its drive. Cleaning, adjusting, and refinishing a model like this FM diesel makes you feel good once it is done. You can learn from just looking at the drive, this drive, it is well designed and put the weight of the all metal parts on both trucks. Maybe not equally but the weight of the metal drive is there and does improve traction, that is if all wheels are powered. Without seeing the drive you don't know. My hobbyline FM H12-44's all suffer from a connecting drive shaft of 65 year old plastic tubing that is very stiff now and on sharp turns can cause derailments. The walters FM H10 - 44 is not the same and runs freer. I read somewhere about these Raymond Lowery designed FM road switchers. I am sure it said the these aesthetic design changes were put on all the first run H-10-44's and H15-44's to improve sales, which it did. In the second year of production cost minded railroads could save cash by ordering the squared off versions of both models. The third year brought horsepower increases in both models and both were now squared off and with special order could have the Raymond Lowery aesthetics applied during assembly. Actually when viewed there is little difference in appearance between the 10 and the 12 hundred horsepower units with matching aesthetic, as well as the 15 and 16 hundred horsepower units. FM didn't reach reliability until they produced the H-14-44. This was their best switcher. frank
toptrain
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Posted - November 05 2019 : 4:54:26 PM
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quote:This part of the hobby is very rewarding, and I don't mean money. Carefully removing the body from its drive. Cleaning, adjusting, and refinishing a model like this FM diesel makes you feel good once it is done. You can learn from just looking at the drive, this drive, it is well designed and put the weight of the all metal parts on both trucks. Maybe not equally but the weight of the metal drive is there and does improve traction, that is if all wheels are powered. Without seeing the drive you don't know. My hobbyline FM H12-44's all suffer from a connecting drive shaft of 65 year old plastic tubing that is very stiff now and on sharp turns can cause derailments. The walters FM H10 - 44 is not the same and runs freer. I read somewhere about these Raymond Lowery designed FM road switchers. I am sure it said the these aesthetic design changes were put on all the first run H-10-44's and H15-44's to improve sales, which it did. In the second year of production cost minded railroads could save cash by ordering the squared off versions of both models. The third year brought horsepower increases in both models and both were now squared off and with special order could have the Raymond Lowery aesthetics applied during assembly. Actually when viewed there is little difference in appearance between the 10 and the 12 hundred horsepower units with matching aesthetic, as well as the 15 and 16 hundred horsepower units. FM didn't reach reliability until they produced the H-14-44. This was their best switcher. frank
Originally posted by toptrain - November 05 2019 : 08:02:12 AM
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Yes, it is indeed rewarding. All wheels are driven. Am not sure how much it pulls because I have not put coupler boxes on yet. Great info and story as well!
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Posted - August 01 2020 : 10:51:08 AM
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Remember This? Yeah, it still sits on my work bench, no handrails. Now with more expertise I am going to make them. Then perhaps I will paint it. Can't stand the constant tarnishing, and I like my locomotives to look like locomotives, not brass hunks. My dad who thinks he has authourity to tell me what to do with my models, does not want me to paint it because quote: "People buy brass to run it in its brass state, not to slather paint over it." Of course, I know this is only true usually with brass COLLECTORS. People buy brass for all the detail and fine craftsmanship. Not for the color of the metal itself.
Anyhow, if I do paint it it will be painted to match my Penn line midget. Grey with yellow accents. An industrial sort of look. If it gets paint, it shall be weathered. In my Blaxland Ridge series, This locomotive "Fairbanks" is the villain. He is always scheming with "Clagwell" (The Penn line midget) to cause trouble. I think it is appropriate that he has a grungy, unkempt look.
muahahaha!
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Posted - August 01 2020 : 4:18:08 PM
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What a beautiful piece. Please keep us posted. Paint it!
Edited by - Chops124 on August 01 2020 4:35:11 PM
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Posted - August 01 2020 : 5:20:28 PM
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quote:What a beautiful piece. Please keep us posted. Paint it!
Originally posted by Chops124Â -Â August 01 2020Â :Â 4:18:08 PM
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Thank you. Yes, it is a beautiful loco. I think I will.
I don't want to do any more soldering with this. So the first thing I am doing is drilling out the holes where the handrails go. I'll drill pilot holes with my pin vice, then get em' Said and done with the dremel. Then I'll make the new handrails. Should be easy.
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Posted - August 01 2020 : 6:28:47 PM
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you could PAINT it as that'll hide the burn marks hehe
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Posted - August 01 2020 : 6:46:43 PM
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quote:you could PAINT it as that'll hide the burn marks hehe
Originally posted by microbusss - August 01 2020 : 6:28:47 PM
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Oh I ended up cleaning up those burn marks but I am still gonna paint it
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