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fourteen
Little Six

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 Posted - November 28 2016 :  02:33:33 AM Link directly to this topic  Show Profile  Add fourteen to Buddylist
[URL=http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/14fourteen14/media/mantua2-8-2_zpshgap3zpp.jpg.html] [/URL]

Bought an all metal Mantua 2-8-2 at a local hobby shop this weekend. Going to repaint it and fix it up and put some detail parts on it. When I first tried to get it to run it didn’t run, after I had unhocked the tender I put the wire on the track and it ran fine, which surprised me, I had figured the old motor was long dead. Going to clean the tender contacts and see if that helps.
Things to do on it.
1. Install tender ladder grabs and ladder which were missing - done
2. Install coal load which is missing - awaiting
3. Drill out head light through metal body, do I want to do this? - awaiting
4. Install head light - awaiting
5. Install detail parts - in work
6. Oil running gear (makes a little noise) - awaiting
7. Paint and weather - awaiting
8. Make tender underframe - done

What oil should I use? And where do I put it on the motor, it is the very old motor type I believe. I did put some grease on the gears to the wheels


Modeling on the cheap
Edited by - fourteen on November 28 2016 04:32:36 AM
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Redneck Justin
Big Boy



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 Posted - November 28 2016 :  06:21:47 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Redneck Justin to Buddylist
I use Wahl Clipper oil. Apply just a little to the bearings of the motor. Should have oil wicks still. Nice score!
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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ZeldaTheSwordsman
Mikado


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 Posted - November 28 2016 :  06:25:24 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add ZeldaTheSwordsman to Buddylist
I'm not surprised the motor's fine - a lot of old motors, such as the Tyler Mfg. Co's open-frame ones or the Tri-Ang/Hornby motors, are rather hard to kill.
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catfordken
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 Posted - November 28 2016 :  08:05:54 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Send catfordken a Yahoo! Message  Add catfordken to Buddylist
nice find,but don't forget the boiler door bell,ken

catfordken
if you cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel,try turning around

Edited by - catfordken on November 28 2016 08:12:34 AM
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Retired Alex
Big Six

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 Posted - November 28 2016 :  09:49:01 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Retired Alex to Buddylist
Mantuas pick up power from one side of the engine and from one side of the tender. Power is routed from the tender wheels through the frame to the wire connected to the draw bar screw on the tender end. When you dismantle the tender to paint it, make sure that the mounting surfaces between the tender and its trucks are free of paint and corrosion. A light filing and sanding with wet/dry emery cloth wouldn't hurt. A light sanding of the brass pick up wheels with 600 grit wet/dry emery cloth may be in order also.
It is hard to tell from the picture, but if the wire from the tender to the motor is cloth insulated, replace it with up to date plastic insulated wire.
I only use Labelle 107 iol for motor bearings and Labelle 108 for the running gear.
There are two lubricating points on the motor. At the rear, between the frame and the magnet there my be a fiber pad. Soak this with oil and it will keep the rear bearing lubed. At the front of the motor, oil the bearing from the outside of the frame only. You do not want to get any oil on the commutator.
Speaking of the commutator, check it and ensure that it is clean. With a Q-Tip soaked in alcohol rub each section of the commutator to remove as much of the worn carbon dust from the brushes as possible. With a new #11 Exacto blade CAREFULLY clean out each slot between the commutator segments. Rinse with another Q-Tip soaked in alcohol, let dry and and I guarantee this baby will run like it was brand new.
I have just completed refurbishing the same engine and now at 12v it purrs like a kitten and draws only .46 amps.

Edited by - Retired Alex on November 28 2016 09:59:46 AM
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Barry
Big Boy


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 Posted - November 28 2016 :  3:35:34 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Barry to Buddylist
That will be pretty fine Keith. With those brass wheels, you've got a vintage find. There should also be a felt wick at the front of the armature as well. I'll be looking forward to seeing some photos of this all cleaned up, and maybe a video, hey?
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fourteen
Little Six

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 Posted - November 29 2016 :  02:36:41 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add fourteen to Buddylist
Yes the tender wire is cloth, was thinking of replacing it. I looked at the tender wheels, not really sure how to get them out without bending them. Will post picture of bottom of tender, and the locomotive frame. Looking at pictures from hoseekers site it shows the two holes on the gears, mine does not have them I belive, could be wroung and no fiber pad also.

http://www.hoseeker.org/assemblyexplosionMantua/mantua282mikadoinst1953pg07.jpg

The brass wheels superprized me as I have seen only steel ones before. They where clean also, no gunk etc on them.

Modeling on the cheap
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scsshaggy
Big Boy


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 Posted - November 29 2016 :  08:41:06 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add scsshaggy to Buddylist
I've taken Mantua 6-wheel tender trucks apart, before. There's a plate on the bottom pressed onto some studs. I hit the studs (somewhat gently) with a punch and popped them out. The fit was still tight enough when I pressed the plate back on.
Carpe Manana!
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fourteen
Little Six

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 Posted - November 29 2016 :  08:57:29 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add fourteen to Buddylist
[URL=http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/14fourteen14/media/DSC02702_zpsngzezcu7.jpg.html] [/URL]

[URL=http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/14fourteen14/media/DSC02703_zpsrz7gkwq0.jpg.html] [/URL]

[URL=http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/14fourteen14/media/DSC02705_zpsc6p4fjcx.jpg.html] [/URL]

[URL=http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/14fourteen14/media/DSC02656_zpsbdd8e88x.jpg.html] [/URL]

Here is some update pics, where else should i oil?

Modeling on the cheap
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Retired Alex
Big Six

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 Posted - November 29 2016 :  10:02:35 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Retired Alex to Buddylist
On your motor the oil pad is at the front, in the little frame that just out, oil that. on the rear of the motor in front of the magnet you can see a small washer, put 1 drop of oil there on the magnet side of the washer. You don't want too much, more is not better. Where you have "clean?" marked on the motor by the brushes, yes that is the place to clean the commutator. It should be copper shiny or as near to it as you can get. Don't be too aggressive in cleaning it. The small wires from the motor windings are soldered to the segments of the commutator and easily broken.
On the tender trucks, the wheels can be removed by unscrewing the 2 screws on each truck and removing the plate. Mark the position of the brass wheels so you get them back on in the correct orientation (side). The small screws hold the plate on, the large screw holds the truck onto the tender. Oil the axle tips where they fit into the frame (one drop from the end of a toothpick) and oil the axles where they rub on the cover plate. again be sparing on the roil, more is not better.

Edited by - Retired Alex on November 29 2016 10:06:53 AM
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toptrain
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 Posted - November 29 2016 :  10:08:31 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add toptrain to Buddylist
Keith; As to oiling and greasing a loco. If it moves and rubs against anything put oil on it. Axels all where the axel makes contact and axel points at truck frame, all springs, side-rods at wheel connection, rivets, main-rods, piston shaft, piston slide, motor shaft both ends, light grease on gears. And anything else you can think of. For better electrical pick-up screws that hold on metal trucks.
frank

toptrain

" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
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fourteen
Little Six

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 Posted - November 29 2016 :  10:22:42 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add fourteen to Buddylist
Had to go look at the motor to see the oil pad, now that i know what you where talking about. The two holes on the gear box dont seam to go very far into it, is that normal?

I have some stuff on order at local hobby shop, i need to pay for that before i can get the oil and other parts i need for this locomotive, and need some parts for a IHC 2-8-2 also, waiting to hear back from them if they have them. I am guessing as for alcohol you mean isproyal alcohol, not sure if we have any here, if not can pick some up when i go into work tonight.

Thanks all for the help and info.

On a funney side note i noticed that my profile says i am 13 had to fix that lol.

Modeling on the cheap
Edited by - fourteen on November 29 2016 10:31:31 AM
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Barry
Big Boy


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 Posted - November 29 2016 :  10:29:04 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Barry to Buddylist
That cloth covered lead wire appears to be in good shape. Might be a shame to replace it with plastic if it wasn't necessary. Simple cleaning and lubrication does wonders. Also, the lead wire does not need to be soldered to a contact point on the motor; you can simply pinch it in the little hook at the front facing part of the brush spring.
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Barry
Big Boy


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 Posted - November 29 2016 :  10:32:17 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Barry to Buddylist
Perhaps the major thing that could be done to assure engine performance (without altering the engine in a way that cannot be reversed) would be to replace the magnet with neodymium magnets. With that vintage motor, you don't have to pop a rivet to get at the magnet, you can just unscrew the frame and then, when it comes down to it, the magnets will stay in place by themselves . . . but you can put the screw back in, just to keep track of it.
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Barry
Big Boy


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 Posted - November 29 2016 :  10:35:00 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Barry to Buddylist
I should have looked more closely at your photo. The brush springs on your model are different from what I was talking of, so you may not be able to pinch the lead wire in the brush spring.
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time warp
Little Six

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 Posted - November 29 2016 :  11:30:48 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add time warp to Buddylist
Nice find Keith! A person doesn't see one of those everyday, good for you.
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scsshaggy
Big Boy


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 Posted - November 29 2016 :  9:50:10 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add scsshaggy to Buddylist
Those holes in the gear box look like they may or may not be for oil. If the gear box is reasonably easy to take apart, it might be a good idea to do it once to make sure there's no dried up grease in there and to see just where the holes do go. There should be a worm on the shaft that meshes with the gear on the axle. That would get a light grease such as LaBelle 106 or Vaseline. The shaft should be in two bronze bushings that should get a light application of oil just like the ones on the motor.

As for the alcohol, most any alcohol should work for cleaning. Isopropyl alcohol is very available as rubbing alcohol or disinfectant. You can usually get denatured alcohol at the hardware store. It's ethanol with something else added to make it unsuitable for drinking.

Carpe Manana!
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fourteen
Little Six

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 Posted - November 30 2016 :  01:51:51 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add fourteen to Buddylist
If this is correct it looks like 3 screws hold the cover on, will have to look at mine when I get off work.
http://www.hoseeker.org/assemblyexplosionMantua/mantua282mikadoinst1953pg02.jpg

The shop I bought it form had it sitting on the shelf for well about a year at lest seanse I noticed it first, I got it for 30$

Hope to look today to see if I have any drill small and long enough to drill out head light

Still need to get the alcohol yet. Not sure if the hobby lobby on way to work carries the LaBelle oil if not will have to wait tell this weekend to get it at other hobby shop.

Modeling on the cheap
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catfordken
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 Posted - November 30 2016 :  08:02:24 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Send catfordken a Yahoo! Message  Add catfordken to Buddylist
this is the 3rd version of mantua mikado,the bell is on the side,whereas the 1st and second have their bells on the front boiler door,and tender on first 2 have a skeleton frame and 3 rd has 2 coloums for connecting the trucks to,ken

this was made in 1958,yours was between 1952-57

catfordken
if you cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel,try turning around

Edited by - catfordken on November 30 2016 08:09:49 AM
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fourteen
Little Six

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 Posted - November 30 2016 :  4:16:07 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add fourteen to Buddylist
As part of my ongoing battle with breaking drill bits, i manged to break a 3/32 one drilling out the headlight, now it is stuck about 3/4 of the way through the body, inculding blocking the hole through the smoke stack for that screw to attack to body. Any ideas on how to get it out?

looked at the 3 screw on the cover that hold the gear box on, it looks like i have to remove the motor and the drive shaft also to get the cover off. Leary of doing that as afraid will not be able to get back together right, same thing on the bottom plate that hold the drive wheels on. I did start to take that off the other day but the drive wheels started to move around, did not want to mess that up at all!!!.

Modeling on the cheap
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Barry
Big Boy


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 Posted - November 30 2016 :  7:25:39 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Barry to Buddylist
Just take your time Keith. 3/32" sounds like a pretty big bit, but that's an aside now. Maybe try a little bar soap or bees wax around the bit . . . easy . . . easy . . . easy.
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scsshaggy
Big Boy


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 Posted - November 30 2016 :  7:31:07 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add scsshaggy to Buddylist
I don't have any ideas on removing broken bits, but I do have a suggestion for future reference.

Whenever you drill white metal castings, oil the drill bit and drill a little at a time, withdrawing the bit from time to time to clear the chips from the drill bit. This was in some helpful tips in the directions for a Bowser locomotive kit, and it has worked well for me since I've been doing it.

The same thing goes for tapping threads in a hole.

I generally oil drills and taps when using them in any metal, but Zamac like the Mantua castings is especially troublesome. It seems to be almost sticky in the way it grabs tools.

Carpe Manana!
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fourteen
Little Six

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 Posted - December 01 2016 :  02:51:05 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add fourteen to Buddylist
I should have used oil I guess. Used a big bit as did not want to break a smaller one, weird thing is I broke it in reverse taking it out of the hole. I am thinking of taking it to a machine shop and see if they can drill out for a small fee I hope.

On one good note I got it to run with the tender after I cleaned the wheels and the connect points.

Modeling on the cheap
Edited by - fourteen on December 01 2016 02:55:47 AM
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ZeldaTheSwordsman
Mikado


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 Posted - December 01 2016 :  05:10:52 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add ZeldaTheSwordsman to Buddylist
Awesome.

Have you tried holding it with the smokebox door facing down and then tapping on the inside of the smokebox with a screwdriver or small hammer or something to shake it loose? You might also be able to squeeze a straight pin into the hole alongside the bit to lever it free.

Feedback-hungry attention w****
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fourteen
Little Six

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 Posted - December 01 2016 :  05:53:32 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add fourteen to Buddylist
Its jammed in there hard, don't think it will come out with out a lot of work.
hon30critter on the model railroader forum had a good idea, forget that hole, and just drill a new one just below it. Still will have to figure out cut the part that screw that holds the body to the frame that goes through the smoke stack. maybe a thin long punch might break it?
Will be busy today with doctors apptmoint, and my dads birthday on Saturday, so not sure when I will be able to work on it again.

Modeling on the cheap
Edited by - fourteen on December 01 2016 05:54:42 AM
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fourteen
Little Six

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 Posted - December 16 2016 :  12:43:49 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add fourteen to Buddylist
Was able to get broke drill bit out. Here is what the body looks like now.

[URL=http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/14fourteen14/media/DSC02765_zpsj3x66yky.jpg.html] [/URL]

[URL=http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/14fourteen14/media/DSC02766_zpscy2l9yjg.jpg.html] [/URL]

Modeling on the cheap
Edited by - fourteen on December 16 2016 12:44:21 PM
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Barry
Big Boy


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 Posted - December 16 2016 :  7:15:02 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add Barry to Buddylist
Looks like you've got an eye for detail Keith. Have you had it running around yet?
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fourteen
Little Six

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 Posted - December 19 2016 :  02:45:36 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add fourteen to Buddylist
I tested it to make sure it ran, which it does, it needs oiling before I run it to much. Got some work done on the front and more on the sides.
Modeling on the cheap
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