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Redneck Justin
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The Young Dr.Frankenstein!

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 Posted - March 18 2015 :  11:11:28 PM Link directly to this topic  Show Profile  Add Redneck Justin to Buddylist
Is the Bachmann Plus 2-8-0 better than the earlier 2-8-0 of the same style? In other words different drive and or less prone to cracking gears?
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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AMC_Gremlin_GT
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 Posted - March 19 2015 :  07:52:04 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Send AMC_Gremlin_GT an AOL message  Send AMC_Gremlin_GT a Yahoo! Message  Add AMC_Gremlin_GT to Buddylist
Justin, the Plus series was a disaster, those had the split frames, I have two of them, a J and a GS-4 engine, the gears cracked, major pain to repair. The next newer series, the Spectrum, was much improved. I don't know what came before the Plus series, so can't comment on that, but Plus is a big minus in my book. I wouldn't spend any money on one personally. Nice lookers, and ran well until they fell apart, but other than that, meh.

Jerry

" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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kovacste000
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 Posted - March 19 2015 :  09:32:19 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add kovacste000 to Buddylist
quote:
Justin, the Plus series was a disaster, those had the split frames, I have two of them, a J and a GS-4 engine, the gears cracked, major pain to repair. The next newer series, the Spectrum, was much improved. I don't know what came before the Plus series, so can't comment on that, but Plus is a big minus in my book. I wouldn't spend any money on one personally. Nice lookers, and ran well until they fell apart, but other than that, meh.

Jerry

Originally posted by AMC_Gremlin_GT - March 19 2015 :  07:52:04 AM

As far as I can tell, the Plus series isn't much different from Bachmann's regular lineup. Basically, they took all their cool looking trains from their regular lineup and put them in the Plus lineup.

-Steve

"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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rbturner
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RBT

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 Posted - March 19 2015 :  10:35:09 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add rbturner to Buddylist
Jerry, didn't the Plus diesels have a slightly better drive train?
Randy
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JRG1951
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 Posted - March 19 2015 :  11:26:45 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Send JRG1951 a Yahoo! Message  Add JRG1951 to Buddylist
The Bachmann plus line was a step improved. They had a can motor Vs the old pancake. They had a little more beef in the drive train. They were beset with gear and plastic axle problems. These were mainly material related and were common as the Chinese are famous for not using the specified. Stuff. Bachmann now has their own factory and has solved most of these short commings.
I have a few of the 4-8-4 engines, they seem to hold up well if a plastic grease and oil is used.
I have seen a couple that were victims of petroleum base lubricants. The axles were split.

My only bachmann 2-8-0 was an old POS pancake motor one.

Many of the plus parts will interchange with current Bachmann production parts.

Regards, John

Edited by - JRG1951 on March 19 2015 11:28:40 AM
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JNXT 7707
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 Posted - March 19 2015 :  12:33:25 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add JNXT 7707 to Buddylist
quote:
Justin, the Plus series was a disaster.....
Originally posted by AMC_Gremlin_GT - March 19 2015 :  07:52:04 AM



Hmmm...
Well I don't think I would call them a disaster. Shortcomings there to be sure (split axle gears) but easily replaced. I have a number of the Plus as well as Spectrum models, and mechanically they appear identical. And so far, only one of my Plus units (a F7B) suffered from a split axle. Honestly I have had worse experiences with old Athearn BBs, at least concerning the split axle gears.
Just another perspective.

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PGE33
Hudson

CanadianPacificBeaverAvatar

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 Posted - March 19 2015 :  7:07:02 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add PGE33 to Buddylist
The Spectrum series was not immune to the split gear issue.
I have two Doodlebugs, both of which have split gears.
However, these were early Spectrum models.
Does anyone have later versions?

Evan
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AMC_Gremlin_GT
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 Posted - March 19 2015 :  8:31:31 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Send AMC_Gremlin_GT an AOL message  Send AMC_Gremlin_GT a Yahoo! Message  Add AMC_Gremlin_GT to Buddylist
quote:
The Spectrum series was not immune to the split gear issue.
I have two Doodlebugs, both of which have split gears.
However, these were early Spectrum models.
Does anyone have later versions?

Evan

Originally posted by PGE33 - March 19 2015 :  7:07:02 PM



Now that is interesting to learn, as I have two Spectrum Doodlebugs, an undecorated (which I've never run/tried since bought ), and a Burlington, again I haven't tried it, still in the box. How do you tell an early from a late version? I mean to DCC at least one of these in the future.

Jerry

" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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AMC_Gremlin_GT
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GremlinBL2

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 Posted - March 19 2015 :  8:35:48 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Send AMC_Gremlin_GT an AOL message  Send AMC_Gremlin_GT a Yahoo! Message  Add AMC_Gremlin_GT to Buddylist
quote:
Jerry, didn't the Plus diesels have a slightly better drive train?

Originally posted by rbturner - March 19 2015 :  10:35:09 AM



I've never bought a Plus diesel that I know of, so I have no idea of their longevity. I guess I was biased on the two Plus steam engines, as a club member gave them to me as he didn't want to try to repair them, and I looked into it and decided it was too much work for me as well ( at the time, I might attempt it now if it's worth doing, and can still get parts, I heard Bachmann would just trade them out for a newer Spectrum, but I want a J and GS-4 replacement exactly, not something else, so I haven't checked into a swap deal with Bachmann ). Back to the diesels, I'll have to look them up to see what the chassis looks like to tell if I've ever or do own one. I have no idea what one looks like.

Jerry

" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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kovacste000
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Daylight 4449

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 Posted - March 19 2015 :  9:22:56 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add kovacste000 to Buddylist
quote:
The Spectrum series was not immune to the split gear issue.
I have two Doodlebugs, both of which have split gears.
However, these were early Spectrum models.
Does anyone have later versions?

Evan

Originally posted by PGE33 - March 19 2015 :  7:07:02 PM

I have later versions. The later Spectrum locos are actually pretty good overall.In fact, they're DCC ready.

-Steve

"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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PRR 4800
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 Posted - March 19 2015 :  9:58:14 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add PRR 4800 to Buddylist
I've got two Spectrum doodlebugs. One Pennsy in HO that I ran /once/, with no problems whatsoever. It's currently apart as I'm converting it to kadees on both ends (chopping out the dummy has proven difficult without murdering the rest of the pilot ), but I have no idea if it's newer or older spectrum. I also have an undecorated N-scale version that my parents apparently got me when they first came out when I was little, I just dug it out yesterday to letter it for the Erie (because why not)... never tried running it as all my N track is rubbish. I may DCC three of my good N-scale locos (two RS3's, PRR and Providence & Worcester, plus the doodlebug) and join the local N-trak sometime just for the fun of it.
--CRC
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wiley209
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 Posted - April 10 2015 :  10:11:43 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add wiley209 to Buddylist
I have the Bachmann Plus 2-8-0; basically their 70s-80s Consolidation but with an improved can motor, worm gear flywheel, and all-wheel drive. The tender even had metal wheels replacing the plastic ones, and a body-mounted coupler (still X2F though...)

Pretty good runner, but I removed the smoke unit among learning that the smoke would've been bad for the tracks...
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kovacste000
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 Posted - April 10 2015 :  1:48:31 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add kovacste000 to Buddylist
quote:
I have the Bachmann Plus 2-8-0; basically their 70s-80s Consolidation but with an improved can motor, worm gear flywheel, and all-wheel drive. The tender even had metal wheels replacing the plastic ones, and a body-mounted coupler (still X2F though...)

Pretty good runner, but I removed the smoke unit among learning that the smoke would've been bad for the tracks...

Originally posted by wiley209 - April 10 2015 :  10:11:43 AM

Finally, a 1980's Bachmann that may actually live up to it's looks.

-Steve

"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."

Edited by - kovacste000 on April 10 2015 1:48:45 PM
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ScaleCraft
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 Posted - April 10 2015 :  3:50:36 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add ScaleCraft to Buddylist
quote:
The Bachmann plus line was a step improved. They had a can motor Vs the old pancake. They had a little more beef in the drive train. They were beset with gear and plastic axle problems. These were mainly material related and were common as the Chinese are famous for not using the specified. Stuff. Bachmann now has their own factory and has solved most of these short commings.
I have a few of the 4-8-4 engines, they seem to hold up well if a plastic grease and oil is used.
I have seen a couple that were victims of petroleum base lubricants. The axles were split.

My only bachmann 2-8-0 was an old POS pancake motor one.

Many of the plus parts will interchange with current Bachmann production parts.

Regards, John

Originally posted by JRG1951 - March 19 2015 :  11:26:45 AM



Ummm....I am unfortunately quite familiar with Botchman. 1985 or so, they were bought by Kader Industrial in Kowloon, Hong Kong. They have been a wholly-owned subsidiary of Kader ever since. The main production has moved, but it is still same company, tooling, engineers, cost-cutters.
Kader bought out Sanda Kan oh, six or seven years ago, and promptly cut a whole bunch of folks off at the knees.
Latest is a 40% price increase to all customers.

Same stuff, from the same folks, for 30 years.
Every time you THINK they have solved their shortcomings, you find even more.
Kader makes the calls. No matter what Howard designs, Kader makes the call on what the design is ("what we design and send to China often is unrecognizeable when the product comes to us").

I make certain anything comes in any boxes of Half Zero stuff that says "Bachmann" on it gets recycled.
Dave
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ScaleCraft
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 Posted - April 10 2015 :  3:59:24 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add ScaleCraft to Buddylist
quote:
quote:
Justin, the Plus series was a disaster.....
Originally posted by AMC_Gremlin_GT - March 19 2015 :  07:52:04 AM



Hmmm...
Well I don't think I would call them a disaster. Shortcomings there to be sure (split axle gears) but easily replaced. I have a number of the Plus as well as Spectrum models, and mechanically they appear identical.

Originally posted by JNXT 7707 - March 19 2015 :  12:33:25 PM



I just went through two of these for a customer. The couplings and gears on steamers....the narrow part of the coupling forms part of the bearing. Such narrow wall it just splits...in the box, even. Part of the issue is China uses plastic for couplings and gears...and it shrinks. And splits.
I used to get brand new locos in the shop, open them for servicing (as you never knew who was lubing the day they were made), and the hubs on the axle gears all had cracks...and they would eventually radiate out and "POW!".

Those couplings and gears have never been available NEW from Botchman. Used, out of returned locomotives, maybe.
For $84 or so, you can buy a new 4-8-4 chassis and try to fit it to your boiler.
Or, send it back with twenty five greenbacks and let them deal with it...which is what the customer did.

Those of you who grew up (we grew up?) with US Made Steam, remember the threaded crankpins. Easy to service.
The Botch stuff is pressed in. Almost looks like it was done hot.

ANYTHING that does it's best by design consideration to keep me from working on it....I won't own.

Dave
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JNXT 7707
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 Posted - April 10 2015 :  8:52:33 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add JNXT 7707 to Buddylist
quote:

Those couplings and gears have never been available NEW from Botchman. Used, out of returned locomotives, maybe.....................
The Botch stuff is pressed in. Almost looks like it was done hot.

ANYTHING that does it's best by design consideration to keep me from working on it....I won't own.

Dave

Originally posted by ScaleCraft - April 10 2015 :  3:59:24 PM



To clarify, I have never owned a Bachmann steamer - current or vintage, Spectrum or Plus. My only experience has been with Bachmann Plus/Spectrum diesels.
And yes, the axle gears I received from Bachann were indeed used parts.
I guess as long as something runs well for me I'll own it. On the other hand, I own a few PowerTorques, so you can throw that out the window.

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ScaleCraft
Big Six

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 Posted - April 10 2015 :  9:05:53 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add ScaleCraft to Buddylist
quote:



To clarify, I have never owned a Bachmann steamer - current or vintage, Spectrum or Plus. My only experience has been with Bachmann Plus/Spectrum diesels.
And yes, the axle gears I received from Bachann were indeed used parts.
I guess as long as something runs well for me I'll own it. On the other hand, I own a few PowerTorques, so you can throw that out the window.

Originally posted by JNXT 7707 - April 10 2015 :  8:52:33 PM



Of course we could discuss Mantua/Tyco steamers with nylon worm AND nylon worm gear.....and issues with those.....at least NWSL is an option, as they have A) solid metal axles and B) solid metal wheels.
Dave
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kovacste000
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Daylight 4449

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 Posted - April 11 2015 :  11:40:31 AM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add kovacste000 to Buddylist
quote:
quote:



To clarify, I have never owned a Bachmann steamer - current or vintage, Spectrum or Plus. My only experience has been with Bachmann Plus/Spectrum diesels.
And yes, the axle gears I received from Bachann were indeed used parts.
I guess as long as something runs well for me I'll own it. On the other hand, I own a few PowerTorques, so you can throw that out the window.

Originally posted by JNXT 7707 - April 10 2015 :  8:52:33 PM



Of course we could discuss Mantua/Tyco steamers with nylon worm AND nylon worm gear.....and issues with those.....at least NWSL is an option, as they have A) solid metal axles and B) solid metal wheels.
Dave

Originally posted by ScaleCraft - April 10 2015 :  9:05:53 PM

I have a number of those things and they just don't seem to work.The older ones and the ones from the 80's (from Mantua) are pretty good, though.

-Steve

"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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ScaleCraft
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 Posted - April 11 2015 :  5:52:22 PM Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Add ScaleCraft to Buddylist
The number of Mantua stems I have obtained over the past 60 50+ years....worm worn hourglass. Some to the point of no longer functional. Binding, high current....some I have had have worn them out, even though I lubed the snot out of them.
One of my pastimes is helping design new drives for another scale. One of the things is the worm should always be harder material than worm gear. That even works brass on brass if you harden the worm (heat it way up and let it cool in the air...brass works backwards of steel).
To have plastic/plastic, nylon/nylon is a cheap get-it-out-the-door-fast non-quality process, let the consumer deal with it.
Dave
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