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 Posted - October 08 2015 : 2:15:42 PM
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I wondering what do you guys think? I run all the cars on my layout with kadee couplers and metal wheels. all cars are weighed to spec. I have some tycos still in the boxes and I m wondering how do you feel about adding kadee couplers and metal wheels to your vintage tycos?? or do you prefer the plastic wheels and original hor hook couplers??
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Posted - October 08 2015 : 2:51:51 PM
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well metal wheels will make a smoother run & give of realistic clickity clacks on the rail joints
but I gonna keep mine all original & having a transition car doesn't hurt either 
one car I actually de-Kadeed hehe
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Posted - October 08 2015 : 3:51:32 PM
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I agree with Ben. Metal wheels will help those Tyco cars as the plastic wheels add resistance. Don't roll as well. It's not hard body mounting Kadee's to most cars but I'd stick to a transition car. I have one in my fleet. I hear Intermountain #40025's are the best fit.
" Heck with counting 'em rivets, TRAINS ARE FOR FUN! Not called the Mad Scientist for nothing either!"
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Posted - October 08 2015 : 4:07:52 PM
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nother option is to add the Kadee trucks with couplers. No alterations needed.
rich p
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Posted - October 08 2015 : 5:47:36 PM
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K-dees need to be aligned just right of they come apart. X2F are more forgiving, work good but look bad. Old mantua hook and loop look bad but work good as do the foreign couplers like Fleischmann, Kleinbahn, Rivarossi, Lima, Lilliput, and Marklin. again all hook and loop type. I'll stay with my X2F ( horn hook ) type.
frank
toptrain
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!
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Posted - October 08 2015 : 6:43:56 PM
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quote:I wondering what do you guys think? I run all the cars on my layout with kadee couplers and metal wheels. all cars are weighed to spec. I have some tycos still in the boxes and I m wondering how do you feel about adding kadee couplers and metal wheels to your vintage tycos?? or do you prefer the plastic wheels and original hor hook couplers??
Originally posted by JRadek70Â -Â October 08 2015Â :Â 2:15:42 PM
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In the end it's personal preference. I prefer metal wheels and Kadees too, but not as fanatic about it any more. If I had a vintage Tyco and was planning on running it a lot I'd do the conversion - if it was something I wanted more as a display piece I'd keep it original. I left the X2Fs on my Tyco and Mantua streamliners, replacing the coupler on the baggage car to act as a transition. These cars run together and won't be mixed with other cars, so no reason to convert to knuckle style couplers.
As for the wheels - if they are decent rollers, I think twice about automatically converting to metal. I have some plastic-wheeled cars that roll like they are on ball bearings - so why waste a set of metal wheels on it?
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - October 08 2015 : 10:08:15 PM
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In my own experience, hook and horn couplers put lateral forces on a car that can help it to derail on switches, curves and other picky track. I have also encountered situations where they just uncouple if the couplers go slack on curves.
With Kadees, the pull is straight in line with the cars, so they generally don't create sideways stresses. If the heights match poorly, one will drop out the bottom of another, but if they match well, the train generally stays coupled well.
Since I converted to Kadees, I'd say my cars are generally less temperamental. If, on the other hand, your hook and horn couplers are not causing the troubles I've experienced, why mess with success?
As for metal wheels, there are many in the hobby who believe that plastic wheels hold and spread dirt worse than metal ones. I'm not sure anyone has definitively proven this, but my own experience suggests that it may be true, so I use mostly metal wheels.
Keep an eye on your plastic wheels. If they're holding dirt, you'll see it. If not, then once again, why mess with success?
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - October 08 2015 : 11:02:00 PM
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I agree with everything that's been said here. I run a mix of the two, mostly out of cheapness. Both types have their ups and downs.
One thing I've recently noticed is that if you use the plastic knuckle couplers, like the Bachmanns, you need to check on them after a while. Some of mine that have been stored are sagging badly. A little heat and pressure should straighten them. The plastic ones are cheaper, so you get what you pay for.
Metal wheels seem better in my experience, but not enough to invest in upgrading everything. Like someone else said, if the plastic wheels work, why change them? Personally I can't bring myself to modify most old-school Tycos and such...I prefer the original parts.
The best answer is to have a couple transition cars. That's a car with a X2F/Horn-Hook coupler on one end and a a Kadee type knuckle coupler on the other. That allows you to connect dissimilar locos/rolling stock.
Another thing to look for are the knuckle couplers with the springs attached that fit in where the X2F was. That eliminates the cutting and gluing involved in changing coupler boxes.
Basically, there's a thousand options out there. Or at least there was when I "dropped out" of the hobby a few years ago.
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Posted - October 09 2015 : 05:15:50 AM
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I also agree with a bit of what everyone is saying...
It IS a personal preference though.
Metal wheels do help keep the track cleaner longer, plastic wheels tend
to collect "gunk" and spread it around the rails.
And me personally, haven't even SEEN a X2F coupler in person, since the early 80's!!
Bachmann EZ-mate knuckle couplers fit, albeit loosely, in the TYCO coupler
pockets... If you're concerned about originality.
Also, I would add between 3/4 and 1 ounce of weight (when possible) to the
inside of the car, for better tracking, and to not have a "light spot" in your train...
Which is invariably, the FIRST car to derail !!
You don't need to permanently fix the weight (also affecting originality). I've
actually used good 'ol Elmer's glue before. It holds pretty well, and can be
removed - if desired. If that's not an issue, use CA (super glue).
Just my 10 cents!! 
Carmine - CEO, Engineer, and Chief Bottle Washer
Pacific Belt RR, in HO Scale, Since 1975! 
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Posted - October 09 2015 : 11:48:59 AM
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All new cars I build have metal wheels and KayDees. I have converted all of the mailing cars that I run to this also. Anything that gets repaired also gets this treatment. I keep the Horn Hooks on older items that are occasionally run they just run with a conversion car. All cabooses have both couplers since they are always at the end of the train.
I have found the metal wheels give a smother ride. I have several still with plastic wheels and metal axles (Roundhouse and BB style). I have replaced anything with the plastic axle and plastic wheel, they really rolled poorly.
I prefer the KayDee as they are more reliable backing into my yards. Passing through the switches the Horn Hooks just seemed to have far more issues.
My youngest son has all Horn Hooks and does not own a conversion car. This is called 'protection' for my main fleet. He is still learning and accidents happen. My older has started to convert once he started building his own locomotives from parts.
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Posted - October 09 2015 : 6:35:08 PM
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quote:In my own experience, hook and horn couplers put lateral forces on a car that can help it to derail on switches, curves and other picky track. I have also encountered situations where they just uncouple if the couplers go slack on curves.
With Kadees, the pull is straight in line with the cars, so they generally don't create sideways stresses. If the heights match poorly, one will drop out the bottom of another, but if they match well, the train generally stays coupled well.
.......
Originally posted by scsshaggy - October 08 2015 : 10:08:15 PM
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Interesting. I would agree with most all has been posted. Ironically, my latest impression from the X2F was that it was less picky and more forgiving then knuckle couplers on less than perfect track - which unfortunately my own layoout falls under at this time. I am forever having to fiddle with knuckle coupler heights to make sure they are all perfectly matched, otherwise the 'dips' here and there can cause a break in a train. X2Fs seem to be less prone to that. No they don't back well, but I don't do a lot of switching so not an issue.
A moot point in the end though, plus I like the look of knuckles way better.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - October 10 2015 : 04:53:09 AM
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Here's an example of an EASY, good coupler swap!!
It's a Kadee #148, simply inserted in the SAME way as the old horn hook.
It's a "whisker" coupler, with the springs attached to it, instead of having to use a separate phosphor spring - like the old Kadee #5 (for those who haven't used them yet). It stays perfectly centered, and is very strong.
BTW, I'm not sure if this is even a TYCO... It IS a Roco chassis, clearly marked on the bottom of the huge fuel tank, but a "wonderful" 3-pole can type motor, and ATHEARN style driveshafts (YES, 2!).
Quite confusing! I think I'll put it in it's own post for you guys to hash out!
Carmine - CEO, Engineer, and Chief Bottle Washer
Pacific Belt RR, in HO Scale, Since 1975!
Edited by - pacbelt on October 10 2015 04:58:07 AM
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Posted - October 11 2015 : 10:29:25 PM
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quote:I am forever having to fiddle with knuckle coupler heights to make sure they are all perfectly matched, otherwise the 'dips' here and there can cause a break in a train.
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â October 09 2015Â :Â 6:35:08 PM
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I've had to cope with that, too, having a hilly layout. Fortunately, I don't have a great many cars to convert, and what I do have is a limited number of kinds. Once I've worked out how to get the height right on one Athearn box car, for example, I've got it figured out for all of them.
The break-in-two's that I've had with x2f's occurred a year or two ago. I was shooting video of a model railroad display in the Silver Creek Museum (http://www.thefreeportshow.com/museum.htm). The HO trains run on E-Z track set up on green indoor-outdoor carpeting which sags under the weight of heavy locomotives causing bad track connections. The trains then sometimes lurch to a stop for a fraction of a second. When that happened in curves, the hooks would let go of each other and the coupler to the outside of the curve did not spring far enough in over center to keep hold of its counterpart on the next car. When the train started again, half the train would be left behind.
It made me appreciate both solid track bed and my knuckle couplers at home.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - October 12 2015 : 9:00:39 PM
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My vote for horn hooks, but I consider myself a low scale modeler, and
like it that way. I'd change the lot to metal wheels, I'm sure they'd
track better, but cost is the issue. Nice thing about plastic wheels
is the prototypical "wheel squeal," which I call Tyco Sound Effects.
Edited by - Chops124 on October 12 2015 9:01:36 PM
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Posted - October 15 2015 : 8:27:16 PM
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I prefer knuckle couplers, myself. I mostly used horn-hook couplers until around 2011, or maybe 2012, when I began to upgrade my equipment. When installing new knuckle couplers in TYCO rolling stock, I usually go with either Bachmann E-Z Mate couplers with Kadee talgo truck adapters, or Life-Like's Scenemaster knuckle couplers. Whichever I use, I do need to trim the edges of the "whiskers" a bit so they fit nicely in the coupler pockets. The same producer also goes for older Life-Like rolling stock, but for AHM, IHC and newer Life-Like, I usually don't need to trim the whiskers.
The only flaw is, like I said, they have to be at level all the time or they can uncouple in certain conditions, which can get annoying. And the long uncoupling pin can catch onto stuff on occasion like part of a turnout, which can uncouple or derail the car. So you either have to bend the pin up a bit or shorten it with some kind of knife.
I've only so far upgraded a few of my TYCO cars to metal wheels, and it does make a difference. I may need to buy some more wheels so I can upgrade more cars...
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