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 Posted - March 27 2015 : 1:27:37 PM
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...need not always end...?
[EDIT MAR 31 11:30-ish pm: AS I HONOR MY WORD, I am editing this post. Perhaps it may be deleted eventually, but I am leaving the still-relevant parts for now.]
Hi everyone,
This place has seen a bit of drama in the past few weeks hasn’t it? Outages, terse “Announcements”, speculation, fear, uncertainty, doubt. Who’s running the place? Will it survive? Why won’t the “owner” step forth? What caused the problems? Unfortunately, behind the scenes I know a fair amount of what’s going on, and after discussion with others I believe everyone here deserves to know a few things.
FACT: People have been burned and suffered scam losses. FACT: Moderation and Ownership is not as it is claimed or seems...
If you are wondering what’s been going on around here, you should read and heed, as I will address the following:
- Trading Post closure
- TCF Moderation and Ownership
- {REDACTED and hopefully resolved}
1) Trading Post closure
This is not “my” situation to disclose as I wasn’t involved directly. But I’ve been given enough backstory, to feel a good purpose is served by sharing. Please consider this as objective speculation with good intentions:
In recent years, a member here who was active at that time ran a side business, and was involved in numerous trades. I never dealt with him directly in those channels. Eventually he went “AWOL” with deals pending. A number of folks sleuthed to track him down, as a still-active member of other forums. There is now reason to believe he defrauded several people on the Tyco Forum and elsewhere. As a result there is talk of a lawsuit against him.
It seems Todd, aka “New_York_Central”, aka “Admin” - the Tyco Forum’s sole creator, owner and moderator - was recently contacted in regards to such proceedings, for information, etc.
Speaking as myself: I believe that disclaimers aside, a legal distinction could be made for providing the venue and encouragement for trade (“The Trading Post”). So, while it’s perhaps unfair, and not really Todd’s fault (Caveat Emptor !), I readily understand and could perhaps endorse the reasoning behind shutting it down.
However, I believe his response - a tersely worded announcement - was shameful at best and deceitful at worst.
Why? See #2:
2) Forum Moderation (and/or lack thereof) and “Ownership”
I joined the TCF in 2006 when it was just 6 or 7 months new. I contributed much to its early growth, and the information “out there” and taken for granted now (I acknowledge much was shared with me via the generosity of others, and I felt it should be paid forward and shared). I came to know Todd personally. His approach is very laid-back and well intentioned, and to be crystal clear: I consider him a friend despite some major differences of opinion. As for TCF, he doesn’t like to get involved with things (speaking pragmatically: who has time for drama?). Surprisingly, this hands-off approach has worked well for the most part... I attribute this to “Tyco” being a forlorn niche interest in the much louder and flame-prone world of model railroading.
Still, if you create a forum and cultivate it to an extent, you bear certain responsibilities for the good of all - not just your own legal protection. There are times where basic moderation (as it exists in almost every respectable forum on the internet!) could have done wonders for the TCF.
From late 2006 (or early 2007, I can’t recall for certain) until late 2009 (again I may be off a few months), I was one of a few people involuntarily made a “moderator”. Literally, I signed in one day and had the word “Moderator” under my name for all to see, with no instruction or guidance provided! Unfortunately, while this spawned expectations from the rest of the membership, Todd didn’t configure the forum to allow us “mods” to do much. We couldn’t really edit or create things, or do the administrative tasks one associates with the title. If we did, it was revoked when we inevitably overstepped uncertain boundaries (see: lack of instruction) and hurt feelings ensued. To this day I still don’t know what we were expected to “do”, other than try to keep things civil without any authority, tools, or power? Nonetheless, I felt honored and tried to wield perceived “influence” (HA!) with objective restraint… but I readily admit: it was a disaster! So many things twisted into “damned if you do or don’t” situations that I resigned my original well-known alias, “GoingInCirclez”, in protest. I begged to have the title removed for a fresh start and was overjoyed when it finally happened.
There’s a lot about this forum that is great, but there’s a lot that is sorely broken. Software bugs aside, it’s a small miracle this forum gets along as well as it does. So I’m not advocating a heavy hand.
But I do feel the lack of direction, expectation, and moderated decorum for and among the membership has had unfortunate consequences: a LOT of valued names and members have gone silent over the years. I no longer blame them: I'm almost one of them. This is directly attributable to basic rules of order not being written or enforced. And no way to rectify or address problems whether real, or perceived. And open hostility from the sole power behind it when he is forced to step in.
So, consider the Trading Post closure and subsequent Announcement… look at the “Forum Admins and Mods” under the link at the top... consider past behaviors if you’ve been here long enough... and ask yourself why any “3rd party” would feel it necessary to “own” a silly toy train forum from from the shadows...? Nothing is right about any of this! Oh, but there’s a new logo... what a shiny distraction.
Draw your own conclusions. But, having witnessed a long pattern of ignoring and abdicating responsibility in favor of outsourced / mob rule, for years, I personally do NOT believe any “unaffiliated 3rd party owner” now runs the place. What a cop-out.
Putting my opinions aside, however, I long accepted that TCF is not my castle, so I couldn’t make the rules, and had to accept Todd’s M.O. for good and bad. It's a free place after all.
Still... WHEN it crashes next (as it often does every few weeks), will it come back online? Unlike the past, when we would learn to breathe in hopes that "Todd'll come around and smack it again eventually"... There is no longer any assurance of this - if anything, recent incidents give very good reason to expect that it will NOT come back.
If you have contacts in your PMs, or threads you refer to often - I would save them somewhere else while you can.
#3) {REDACTED}
Much was said and seen in the preceding days.
I am sorry for bringing it here, but it was necessary... and to that end, I appreciate the support, and the objective comments. I never said I was perfect.
Now, As the individual involved has withdrawn from the issue by removing his posts, I have taken that gesture as putting the issue to rest at last, and deleted my references to it.
I do so hoping that I won't come to regret this act of good faith.
So on that note I do offer my personal thanks to that individual for ceasing: Thank You *********. As since 2010 I do not intend to engage or provoke in any way. However I still do not wish to be bothered or contacted by you in any fashion - as many witnesses herein are now all too well aware.
I also hope it goes without saying, I hope nobody else has to deal with said issue either.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So with all that remains:
I urge you to use caution. Scammers are an unfortunate presence in all walks of life. Conduct your trades with caution. But I don't think Todd should have ever been held responsible for any of them.
As for this forum's existence: you ought not completely trust in good faith, a forum “owner” and “moderator” who is loathe to moderate, communicate, or explain a lack of promised follow-through. Who knows when the next terse closure or announcement will drop from the shadows?
Todd: I get that you're busy, but everyone here deserves better: we benefit from your providing the space, but YOU benefit from our contributions, too! “you don’t want to be contacted in any way”?? you threw the forum into a panic when you pretended to be gone, which was a LIE to everybody. Lots of people wish you well and are exceedingly grateful. So what gives??? I kindly ask that you remove all links to my site from the main page, as I no longer want to be associated with this kind of behavior.
-Tony Lucio (aka goingincirclez / GIC / SpiderJ)
Mar 27 2015
Edited by - spiderj76 on April 01 2015 12:13:52 AM
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 Posted - March 27 2015 : 8:57:06 PM
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Wow - well, as was said, stuff sometimes "comes to an end". That's why trains have (had) cabooses, eventually, when train-watching, you have to see the end go by. Tony, I barely knew ye, but you have been a great spark on this site, and it will be sad to see you un-associate yourself from here. But I understand the reasons why. We'll always have Mantua  (paraphrasing the old line We'll always have Paris , ie good memories ).  Again, I hope a few kinks in this rail line of recent misery won't derail the whole train. I intend to stick around, and see how this mess plays out. Thanks for all your contributions to the general good of this Forum, and hope to see you around elsewhere.
Jerry in Virginia
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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blaneo
Switcher
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Posted - March 27 2015 : 9:09:06 PM
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Sad story to read, but it explains a lot, and I respect your comments, beliefs, and opinions. Sorry to see you go, but I personally know from experience, that it is sometimes best to just walk away from a situation. You will be missed here, and I thank you for your contributions both here, and elsewhere across the web.
Bye Tony
Blane
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Posted - March 27 2015 : 9:25:58 PM
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Wow. Quite the read and I appreciate you (Tony) taking the time to write out such a post.
In all honesty, I haven't enjoyed this forum for a long time now. I am not putting blame on anyone as I've made some great friendships because of this place. However I don't feel it's been fun, or as resourceful now as it was say a year or two ago.
I've also felt a lack of appreciation towards myself and others hard work or projects and attention put on topics from months or even YEARS ago.
I apologize if I'm making it about me, I just figured I would provide a more truthful reason to why I've not posted much at all for over a year.
Makes me sad to see what this has all become, but as the late George Harrison said "all things must pass."
I buy, repair, and collect
http://scvr.weebly.com/
http://seyboldlocomotiveworks.weebly.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDeputation?feature=watch
Hyde.
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Posted - March 27 2015 : 9:58:50 PM
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I have to agree with Tony that this forum is in danger. What I mean is, I believe that it could disappear forever with all of the great works and info gone. So what I have done is went through my posts and copied the ones that I thought were worth saving, just in case. If you wish to do the same, click "forums" on the top menu, then scroll down and click "My Area". In there you can bring up most, if not all of your posts.
It would be truly tragic if all of this went away.
~ Dave
They're ALL toys
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Posted - March 28 2015 : 5:06:45 PM
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quote:Tony Lucio. GIC, Spiderj... You certainly exhibit some psychological issues with your needs to greatly dramatize, exaggerate, and just flat out lie.
NOTE: You appear to suffer from symptoms of narcissistic, sociopathic activities. Your lies fall somewhere in the compulsive-pathological areas. Keep these mental illnesses in mind when reading Tony's rant.
O
See a shrink Tony... I'll finish this in the next few days...
Originally posted by walt - March 28 2015 : 1:59:54 PM
Walt..if you ever said to me "I'll finish this in the next few days..." after all that has gone on....I'd be preparing myself locally. I would consider that a threat, and state that it caused me to "be in fear for my life".
For now, I'm going away. I don't need the drama.
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Posted - March 28 2015 : 10:36:10 PM
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No offense Walt but if you claim Tony is only after attention,you are giving it to him. I mean you took the time to find him and contact him outside the forum. Don't you think that's a bit excessive?
If you are not having fun, you are not doing it right.
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Posted - March 29 2015 : 10:25:56 PM
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| If someone's dumb enough to harass you via the mail, get a hold of the postal service, they don't look too kindly on that sort of thing. In fact, it may be a federal crime, rather than a local one. I wouldn't wait to see what's next, I'd nip it in the bud now.
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Posted - March 30 2015 : 4:51:16 PM
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{REDACTED IN GOOD FAITH}
Edited by - spiderj76 on April 01 2015 12:00:56 AM
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Posted - March 31 2015 : 12:50:47 AM
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| Nobody gives a damn about what some imbecile posted on eBay multiple years ago. Enough.
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Posted - March 31 2015 : 12:51:43 PM
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{REDACTED}
The Admin had the ability to prevent this thread, and chose not to. He retains the sole authoritative power to lock and/or delete it, as he sees fit.
However, as this thread’s creator, I also have the unique ability to delete it. (at least I think that still works if there are no replies? You can delete your replies, but can't delete your topics that have replies)  . I have a lot of friends here. I appreciate the words of support both public and private. As I said, I have my own opinions and while I foul up from time to time, I respect those that are different, and the Forum is a good archival resource.
For the benefit of the forum, I will happily delete this thread if the other parties involved delete their responses (which would then enable me to delete it?) in the spirit of rendering this issue and its underlying feud dead once and for all.
(My “do not contact” request will however remain in effect as a matter of observed public record, and I will retain a copy of this thread such as it may be required in the future).
Edited by - spiderj76 on March 31 2015 11:58:14 PM
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Posted - March 31 2015 : 9:24:02 PM
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I have not been on the forum in quite a while and was not aware of any of this drama.
After reading all this mess, one line sticks out to me....
"The Calif. address was just to mess with your MIND"
Mission accomplished, it would seem. I must say that if I received a letter in the mail with a phony return address calling me a profanity, I would be upset also.
I do not know Walt, and know nothing of his character beyond his words that I have read on this topic.
I do know Tony, and have found his character to be top-notch. Someone for which I have great respect.
Best of luck, gentlemen.
Mark
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Posted - April 01 2015 : 08:28:01 AM
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quote:I was wondering if you two could...maybe...
CUT IT OUT
The argument between you two has brought nothing positive to this forum. It's brought no help to anyone.......That is my opinion. You can take it or leave it.
Originally posted by Darth Santa Fe - March 30 2015 : 9:46:23 PM
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As far as the "no help" issue goes, I have to disagree. While I could generally care less about member disagreements, over something from Ebay years ago (a non-Forum issue ), I think I WOULD want to know if a forum member is going off-Forum to threaten another for being a whistle-blower over some possibly perceived negative sales tactics. THAT takes it to a whole new level, especially if it involves family members NOT involved originally. I think that then becomes a somewhat larger community issue. Emotions can run high over money, religion, and political issues. And some people can't let things go ( I know I've had issues with a family member over some issues in the past, it' IS hard to let go ). But that said, holding a grudge is one thing, but then venting frustration by making vague ( or not so ) threats, is a red flag to me, especially in these times where people get hurt for far less.
As for me, I've already formed my opinion on the right vs wrong party, and will leave it at that. I don't think further arguments between these two fellows will accomplish anything here, and neither will benefit from any further points being made by themselves. The facts and opinions of the case have been stated, and it is up to the Forum members themselves to make their own decisions as to character, motive, intent, and innocence. We're all our own jury. Decide, forgive or convict, and move on. I don't deal with either of these two guys in any way outside the forum, nor usually inside it other than general posts and comments. I have no eggs in their baskets either way. But it IS important to keep other members informed if actions are escalated to the point of possible physical threats. And I appreciate being notified of that. I'm moving on now....
Jerry in VA
" When life throws you bananas...it's easy to slip up"
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