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 Posted - August 27 2014 : 01:09:10 AM
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I may have already posted this but I really want to know. The reason why I'm asking is because I only have one currently operating Mantua loco so I'm still a bit skeptical about those Mantua locos and I really want one of their pacifics. So, again, are those Tyco/Mantua Pacifics good engines? I apologize for my vocabulary, I'm a bit weary from working hard on the fair layout today.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on October 07 2014 8:29:20 PM
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 Posted - August 27 2014 : 01:37:21 AM
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[atlasforummode] Horrible. Awful. Throw them in the trash. [/atlasforummode]
Now that that's out of the way, the red box era and before, and 90's Mantua and Mantua Classics versions are great. Skip the 70's - 80's brown box Consolidated Foods versions, since they removed the brass axle bearings and the slop in the drivers is awful. The 50's versions have an enclosed gearbox and a big, powerful open frame motor.
There's a guy on the Yardbird group on Yahoo right now who's adapting a Rivarossi Pacific boiler to a Mantua Classics Pacific frame, so it will have both looks and performance. 
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 Posted - August 27 2014 : 06:33:51 AM
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| Excellent engines, a joy to work on.
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Posted - August 27 2014 : 10:29:17 AM
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quote: [atlasforummode] Horrible. Awful. Throw them in the trash. [/atlasforummode]
Now that that's out of the way, the red box era and before, and 90's Mantua and Mantua Classics versions are great. Skip the 70's - 80's brown box Consolidated Foods versions, since they removed the brass axle bearings and the slop in the drivers is awful. The 50's versions have an enclosed gearbox and a big, powerful open frame motor.
There's a guy on the Yardbird group on Yahoo right now who's adapting a Rivarossi Pacific boiler to a Mantua Classics Pacific frame, so it will have both looks and performance.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â August 27 2014Â :Â 01:37:21 AM
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90's Mantuas only? So you're saying the late 70's, early 80's versions from Mantua were bad? Oh, and I actually saw one of those late 1950's Mantua Pacifics for $25 and it had Kadee style couplers, was in great condition, and it actually worked! But here's the kicker, it didn't run too well because it was extremely dirty and it most likely needed lubricant, plus the fact that it might've needed to be run in since it looked like it hadn't been run in decades. I thought about it for a while at that show (This was a few months ago.) and when I came back, it was gone. I'm still kicking myself about that right now. Also, my parents tried to stop me from getting that thing too and I have no clue why. They said something about how it would take forever to clean in and whatnot. But here's the thing, I could've used it for a cool "restoration" project which would include a major cleaning operation, lubricant, decals, and possible extra parts. Heck, I could've sent it all to Yardbird Classics to get it going if it was really that bad. Why didn't I tell my parents about that? Besides, I know way more about Mantua than they do, which they don't at all. When I got my first Mantua loco, (A Rio Grande 4-6-0 from Mantua.) my parents knew nothing about it while I knew quite a bit about when it was made, the basic history of Mantua, etc. Plus, I've seen these Tyco/Mantua Pacifics at another table right next to each other. One was a Union Pacific 4-6-2 for $45 (The seller said he could go for lower than that.) and a Tyco/Mantua 4-6-2 Royal Blue loco for $55. (Again, the seller said he could go for lower than that.)Basically what I'm asking is which one is a better deal just by the marked price? Both of them are in great condition and they have no upgrades as far as I can tell. They also have the standard horn hook couplers and all that stuff. I haven't test run them yet but just from appearance, I think they'll both run and they'll be at the train show in October which is where I'll most likely buy them.Anyway, back to the question/s. Which one would you guys recommend?
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on August 29 2014 11:04:18 AM
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Posted - August 29 2014 : 12:42:29 PM
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| I'd like to get the crummy Pacifics from the 70s & 80s
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Posted - September 02 2014 : 9:45:13 PM
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$45 and $55 seem high (unless they are a "new" from the 90's, or Classics). As they said, avoid 70's and 80's stuff. I don't know how one would tell besides looking to see if there are brass axel bearings in the frame.
rich p
Edited by - richard p on September 02 2014 9:48:09 PM
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Posted - September 02 2014 : 10:06:57 PM
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quote:$45 and $55 seem high (unless they are a "new" from the 90's, or Classics). As they said, avoid 70's and 80's stuff. I don't know how one would tell besides looking to see if there are brass axel bearings in the frame.
Originally posted by richard p - September 02 2014 : 9:45:13 PM
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The guy selling them said that he would bring it down. Not sure how far he'd go though. Not sure how much but he said he would go for less than their marked prices.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on September 02 2014 10:34:34 PM
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Posted - September 03 2014 : 2:44:07 PM
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I just realized that you say "Mantua" and not Tyco. I don't think Mantua ever produced crap since they went away in the late 60's and then returned in the 90's. The Tyco stuff (at least until the 60's) had Mantua stamped on them. I am not sure if that was the case in the 70's and later. If the engines you are looking at are indeed Mantuas from the 90's and later the price is not too bad. Take a look at Ebay and you can get an idea of what the Mantua engines fetch price wise. many are sold with the red or blue Mantua boxes form the 90'a and later. By the way, Mantua / Tyco (pre70's) are built like tanks. I hace several 50's engines that still run.
rich p
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Posted - September 03 2014 : 6:36:36 PM
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quote:I just realized that you say "Mantua" and not Tyco. I don't think Mantua ever produced crap since they went away in the late 60's and then returned in the 90's. The Tyco stuff (at least until the 60's) had Mantua stamped on them. I am not sure if that was the case in the 70's and later. If the engines you are looking at are indeed Mantuas from the 90's and later the price is not too bad. Take a look at Ebay and you can get an idea of what the Mantua engines fetch price wise. many are sold with the red or blue Mantua boxes form the 90'a and later. By the way, Mantua / Tyco (pre70's) are built like tanks. I hace several 50's engines that still run.
Originally posted by richard p - September 03 2014 : 2:44:07 PM
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In case you don't know, Mantua also existed in the late 1970's and all the way through the 80's so yeah. Just correcting the dates you mentioned.Also, the reason why I never mentioned Tyco is because I knew Tyco made bad stuff in terms of locomotives in the 70's and 80's. Plus, most of the Tyco/Mantua Pacifics I keep seeing are from the Tyco/Mantua (1960's) era.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - September 04 2014 : 4:47:02 PM
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You are correct - don't know what was thinking about there being no Mantua in the late 70's and 80's. Looking at Tony Cooks site, it seems that Tyco cheapened the old Mantua line of locos in the 70's and the 80's and after brought the "crazy" train sets and non Mantua locos.
rich p
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Posted - September 04 2014 : 9:20:20 PM
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I remember seeing the Mantua kits at the LHS during the brown box era, and they had the brass axle bearings. I'm not sure if they sold RTR versions under the Mantua name at that time.
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Posted - September 04 2014 : 10:35:23 PM
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quote:I remember seeing the Mantua kits at the LHS during the brown box era, and they had the brass axle bearings. I'm not sure if they sold RTR versions under the Mantua name at that time.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â September 04 2014Â :Â 9:20:20 PM
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According to Tony Cook's Mantua resource, they did. Or do you mean the Tyco Brown Box locos?
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - October 05 2014 : 11:39:36 PM
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I finally got a Mantua 4-6-2 at the train show yesterday!First off, let me tell you guys about it.It's a Mantua 4-6-2 from the mid 1950's. Runs great, looks pretty good, it even has knuckle couplers.The only big gripe about it is that it has tons of problems on my Bachmann E-Z track curves. Thankfully, I do have another layout that uses Kato track which works just fine with it. It still shows a bit of a struggle on them on the Kato track, but it makes it through it without needing the slightest push. I got it for $30 along with a nice little box car which I'll show in next week's COTW. The guy selling it said he got everything he was selling from estates so there you go. Anyway, enough of the "backstory", let's get to the actual picture.
What do you guys think of it? I think it's pretty sweet.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on October 05 2014 11:39:54 PM
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Posted - October 07 2014 : 9:26:33 PM
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I think you did good Stephen - a running steamer for $30
I've been browsing ebay, checking out the going rate for steamers on there. Prices are out the roof!
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - October 08 2014 : 12:47:22 AM
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quote:I think you did good Stephen - a running steamer for $30
I've been browsing ebay, checking out the going rate for steamers on there. Prices are out the roof!
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â October 07 2014Â :Â 9:26:33 PM
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I've noticed that. That's why when the guy selling it said he wanted at least $30 for it I was like "Heck yeah, I'll take it!". On top of that, I also bundled it with a Santa Fe box car which was an easy $5-10 car so that makes it that much better.So guys, what do you think I should do with it in terms of painting it? I was thinking of putting "Polar Express" decals on it along with getting some coaches and painting them blue and red like in the movie "Polar Express". In case you don't know what I'm talking about, here's some pictures of the locomotive and coaches in the movie.
And yes, I know the locomotive's a Berkshire. So I only have two questions. Where could I get the decals and how do I put them on the loco since it's all metal?
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on October 08 2014 09:42:13 AM
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Posted - October 08 2014 : 10:22:49 AM
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quote:Where could I get the decals and how do I put them on the loco since it's all metal?
Originally posted by kovacste000Â -Â October 08 2014Â :Â 12:47:22 AM
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The locomotive is painted metal. A plastic locomotive is painted plastic. Apply the decal to the paint the way you always do.
I don't know where to get the decals, though, nor whether you can. Those who own the Polar Express copyright are pretty jealous with it, so it'll depend on whether they swallowed really hard and licensed someone to make decals.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - October 08 2014 : 12:07:42 PM
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Might be a bit labor-intensive, but you could always get a few Microscale decal sheets of gold letters in the font the Polar Express used and letter them that way.
http://tycodepot.com/
Edited by - JNXT 7707 on October 08 2014 3:41:20 PM
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Posted - October 08 2014 : 12:14:09 PM
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if you watch that Polar Express movie
The number opf cars changes in scenes
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Posted - October 08 2014 : 3:42:56 PM
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quote:if you watch that Polar Express movie
The number opf cars changes in scenes
Originally posted by microbusss - October 08 2014 : 12:14:09 PM
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Micro-B, the thought you know that is somehow disturbing....
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - October 08 2014 : 6:31:58 PM
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quote:if you watch that Polar Express movie
The number opf cars changes in scenes
Originally posted by microbusss - October 08 2014 : 12:14:09 PM
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I've noticed that. Well, they did say it was a "magical" train in the movie, right? Like seriously, come on. In some scenes, there's between 10 to 20 coaches and in others there's only three or four coaches and in others pretty much everywhere in between.Oh, and JNXT, the Microscale idea is not a bad one at all. I'll keep it in mind when looking at decals. I'll definitely go for something like that in the worst case scenario.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on October 08 2014 6:44:15 PM
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Posted - October 09 2014 : 2:48:16 PM
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Polar Express. I love the locomotive. But not the coaches...the proportions seem wrong for standard gauge.
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Posted - October 10 2014 : 08:25:51 AM
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Very nice engine. I picked mine up on the Bay last year for about the same amount. I love the fact that mine has the 2 piece front mounted bell , enhanced drive, and all meal tender. The beast is really heavy. When you say "struggle" what do you mean? If it is stalling give all the wheels a good cleaning and the contact on the wire to the tender as well. Mine had the same issue and once I cleaned and lubed it, she ran like new - even at slow speed.
rich p
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Posted - October 10 2014 : 3:48:44 PM
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quote:Very nice engine. I picked mine up on the Bay last year for about the same amount. I love the fact that mine has the 2 piece front mounted bell , enhanced drive, and all meal tender. The beast is really heavy. When you say "struggle" what do you mean? If it is stalling give all the wheels a good cleaning and the contact on the wire to the tender as well. Mine had the same issue and once I cleaned and lubed it, she ran like new - even at slow speed.
Originally posted by richard p - October 10 2014 : 08:25:51 AM
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No. The locomotive just has problems going around Bachmann E-Ztrack curves due to it being too large for it. When it gets stuck on the curve, the wheels are still turning but the locomotive refuses to move because the wheels are overhanging the track. I tried on the Kato track too and it worked just fine on those curves. Now that you've read this, what do you think might actually be the problem if it's not the curves on my Bachmann track? And what brand of track would you use?
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on October 10 2014 3:55:15 PM
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Posted - October 10 2014 : 4:45:28 PM
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I only have a test track of Atlas code 83, so i am no expert. These beasts were designed to run on 14r curves so I doubt the radius is the issue. Have you checked to see if the wheels or track are out of gauge? The Kato stuff (I use n scale) is pretty spot on so I have a feeling it might be the wheels. I don't know anything about the Bachmann stuff.
rich p
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Posted - October 10 2014 : 7:12:18 PM
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quote:The locomotive just has problems going around Bachmann E-Ztrack curves due to it being too large for it. When it gets stuck on the curve, the wheels are still turning but the locomotive refuses to move because the wheels are overhanging the track. I tried on the Kato track too and it worked just fine on those curves. Now that you've read this, what do you think might actually be the problem if it's not the curves on my Bachmann track? And what brand of track would you use?
Originally posted by kovacste000Â -Â October 10 2014Â :Â 3:48:44 PM
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This video:
http://youtu.be/SGj4SRt_Db0
shows a Mantua Pacific on what I think is Bachmann E-Ztrack (anyone here know if it really is?) and it makes the curve just fine. I think the radius is 18". I think there is also 15" radius E-Ztrack and I can't vouch for that. The scene with the HO stuff in it starts about 2:04.
You will see the train lurch occasionally. I think that is caused by the track being set up on outdoor carpeting. The weight of the engine presses the track down into the nap of the rug and flexes the rail joints causing loose connections between the rails and momentary interruptions in power. I'm not suggesting that that's Stephen's problem, since the wheels are still turning on his engine.
Stephen, I noticed that, in the picture of your engine, the gap between the cab and tender seems kind of small. Is there a custom made shorter draw bar? If so, could it be too short for the curve radius being used? That could cause some jamming and derailing.
Carpe Manana!
Edited by - scsshaggy on October 10 2014 7:17:44 PM
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Posted - October 10 2014 : 9:26:27 PM
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Hey guys! I just found out what the heck was wrong with the locomotive.  Apparently, the truck was too close to the front driving wheel, causing it to stutter and derail. Take a look.
After fiddling with the truck, it ran around my Bachmann E-Ztrack beautifully. I can honestly say it's one of the best running steam engines I currently own. Even rivaling some of my newer H0 steam engines.Not bad for $30 I must say. Especially with a nice box car.Oh, and as always, thanks for your help, guys.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on October 10 2014 9:31:31 PM
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Posted - October 11 2014 : 7:08:55 PM
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Was the truck on backwards? That will make it interfere with the drivers. The longer end of the truck has to face forward.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - October 11 2014 : 7:25:20 PM
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quote:Was the truck on backwards? That will make it interfere with the drivers. The longer end of the truck has to face forward.
Originally posted by NickelPlate759Â -Â October 11 2014Â :Â 7:08:55 PM
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Yep. The trucks were on backwards because somebody who either built it or messed with it put the trucks on the wrong way. So anyway, where can I find a bell for my Pacific? I looked on Yardbird Classic's website and they don't have one for sale that would work with my particular locomotive. Where do I get it? Should I ask Yardbird Classics for the part? If there is a bell along with the holder thing for it to put on my engine, how do I put it on?I apologize for sounding a bit demanding, guys.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on October 12 2014 01:23:35 AM
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Posted - October 12 2014 : 7:41:24 PM
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quote:So anyway, where can I find a bell for my Pacific?
Originally posted by kovacste000Â -Â October 11 2014Â :Â 7:25:20 PM
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You can find cast brass bells on the bowser-trains.com site under Cal-Scale. They're not original Mantua parts. They have bell brackets and all cast on and mount with a pin that presses into a hole, the way the Mantua bell does.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - October 12 2014 : 8:33:13 PM
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No, I'm talking about the one that goes over the headlight of the loco. I already have the bell that goes on the boiler of the loco. I probably should've made it more clear in my previous post.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on October 12 2014 8:34:10 PM
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Posted - October 13 2014 : 2:21:53 PM
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The bell would attach with a tiny screw attaching the bell bracket to the boiler. You should email Yardbird and ask. I have seen them for sale before. They pop up from time to time on Ebay. If you get lucky ( I did) you can get the entire boiler with the bell for about the same price as the bell alone. This way you don't have to worry about the hole from the original bell. I think the engine looks much better with this bell. HO Seeker does not have Pacific diagram but the Mikado is similar.
http://hoseeker.com/assemblyexplosionMantua/mantua282mikadoinst1953pg06.jpg
rich p
Edited by - richard p on October 13 2014 2:28:15 PM
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Posted - October 13 2014 : 2:28:45 PM
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quote:Polar Express. I love the locomotive. But not the coaches...the proportions seem wrong for standard gauge.
Originally posted by Autobus Prime - October 09 2014 : 2:48:16 PM
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So build one in HO hehe
I want to BUT I gotta do the CP Rail AmRoad one 1st
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Posted - October 13 2014 : 7:01:59 PM
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quote:The bell would attach with a tiny screw attaching the bell bracket to the boiler. You should email Yardbird and ask. I have seen them for sale before. They pop up from time to time on Ebay. If you get lucky ( I did) you can get the entire boiler with the bell for about the same price as the bell alone. This way you don't have to worry about the hole from the original bell. I think the engine looks much better with this bell. HO Seeker does not have Pacific diagram but the Mikado is similar.
http://hoseeker.com/assemblyexplosionMantua/mantua282mikadoinst1953pg06.jpg
Originally posted by richard p - October 13 2014 : 2:21:53 PM
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Um, this thing does not have a tiny hole on the top as far as I can tell from this picture here.
/tyco/forum/uploaded/kovacste000/20141013185953_IMG_0621.JPG
What should I do now? I've seen other people being able to put the bell on the front of the loco even when they don't have a slot for a bell.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - October 13 2014 : 7:56:05 PM
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Stephen, it wouldn't be hard to drill a hole for the bell. Do you have a pin vise and a set of modeling drills? If not, they'll come in handy for a lot of things.
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - October 14 2014 : 3:29:02 PM
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Ditto. And you would still need to fill the hole of the old bell. It looks like you have the die-cast pilot - be very careful because it is very fragile and not easy to replace unless you go plastic.
rich p
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Posted - October 14 2014 : 5:49:16 PM
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quote:Ditto. And you would still need to fill the hole of the old bell. It looks like you have the die-cast pilot - be very careful because it is very fragile and not easy to replace unless you go plastic.
Originally posted by richard p - October 14 2014 : 3:29:02 PM
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I can definitely see that. Even when you touch it, it wobbles a bit so I tend to avoid touching that part entirely.I don't want to ruin this locomotive I've been trying to get for so long so I think I'll just leave the bell alone.I'll still do the Polar Express thing, though.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on October 14 2014 5:51:12 PM
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Posted - November 28 2014 : 2:56:00 PM
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I've got some bad news concerning this locomotive. The wire on it just broke while I was cleaning the locomotive today. Therefore, I have to bring it in to a hobby shop (or yardbird) to get it fixed. But until then, my pacific is as good as dead.
But, as I may have just showed, there's still hope for it. In fact, the new wire that we'll eventually get will probably work better than the old wire ever did, on top of the fact that all it needs is a new wire which should be too difficult to find and sauter to begin with.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
Edited by - kovacste000 on November 28 2014 3:05:45 PM
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Posted - November 28 2014 : 3:13:56 PM
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Should be an easy fix Stephen, as well as an upgrade as you mentioned. It's a wonder that the wire lasted as long as it did!
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Posted - November 28 2014 : 3:24:00 PM
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If you have tin snips and a drill with a bit bigger than the screw and smaller than the post the screw goes into, it's easy to make the spade connector out of an old piece of brass. (I use brass from a spent .22 caliber bullet shell.) Add some flexible stranded wire, and you're back in business.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - November 28 2014 : 9:30:49 PM
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Turns out, it was extremely easy replacing the wire.And honestly, I have no idea how that wire lasted so long, either.Anyway, the locomotive has this bizarre issue where the locomotive overloads with both screws that go into the boiler in and works okay without them. It's truly bizarre.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - November 28 2014 : 10:08:38 PM
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quote:
The following assumes that by "overloads" you mean an electrical overload:
It occurs to me as possible that, in soldering the new wire to the motor, you might have gotten it a mite high so that it's near the inside of the boiler when the screws are out while, with the screws tight, the boiler is pulled down to just touch the bare wire at the solder joint.
To test for this, you could put a piece of tape over that connection and put the boiler on. If the problem doesn't occur with that insulation in place, that was the problem. Otherwise, back to the drawing board.
Carpe Manana!
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Posted - November 29 2014 : 12:33:23 AM
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quote: quote:
The following assumes that by "overloads" you mean an electrical overload:
It occurs to me as possible that, in soldering the new wire to the motor, you might have gotten it a mite high so that it's near the inside of the boiler when the screws are out while, with the screws tight, the boiler is pulled down to just touch the bare wire at the solder joint.
To test for this, you could put a piece of tape over that connection and put the boiler on. If the problem doesn't occur with that insulation in place, that was the problem. Otherwise, back to the drawing board.
Originally posted by scsshaggy - November 28 2014 : 10:08:38 PM
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We put tape in the location of the wire connection to the motor that you see in the diagram I got from HOseeker's page.
I have no idea whatsoever what the problem is.My only hope is probably to bring it in to a hobby shop or Yardbirds Classics.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - December 01 2014 : 11:17:43 PM
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I finally got that problem fixed today.Unfortunately though, within minutes after my little "victory", this happened.
The linkage for this thing cracked much like those cheap Bachmanns from the 70s and 80s. First the front truck problem (understandable), next the wire problem (also somewhat understandable), now this?! Good gosh, I feel like this thing is against me.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - December 02 2014 : 01:22:28 AM
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Ouch! Well, we do tend to fall apart as we get older...
Did a side rod screw fall out on the other side, or did one of the drivers spin on the axle? A screw can be put back in, but if it's the latter there may be some zinc gremlins in the wheel castings that softened them up.
I had a set of drivers from a 50's Pacific in a parts lot, and the center on one pair on the insulated side swelled enough to make contact with the driver tire through the insulating strip. Dead short on the rails. The wheels also had a noticeable side-to-side wobble when turning.
The Tyco Depot
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Posted - December 02 2014 : 09:40:32 AM
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Here's the other side.Apparently, when this happened, one of the back driving wheels popped off. However, I was able to get it back in tightly somehow. On top of that, before this happened, the locomotive started having issues on the track curves again for some reason.
Now my parents are calling this thing a piece of junk. I'm starting to wonder if I should think the same thing.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - December 02 2014 : 10:36:12 AM
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quote:Here's the other side.Apparently, when this happened, one of the back driving wheels popped off. However, I was able to get it back in tightly somehow. On top of that, before this happened, the locomotive started having issues on the track curves again for some reason.
Now my parents are calling this thing a piece of junk. I'm starting to wonder if I should think the same thing.
Originally posted by kovacste000Â -Â December 02 2014Â :Â 09:40:32 AM
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k:
<AUTOBUS SOAPBOX>
Truism: The average person's "junk" is the resourceful mechanic's "learning experience". A person who habitually takes that experience when it becomes available gains insight and pushes himself out of the primeval fog that clouds the average person's eyes when looking at technology. Those who the average person sees as technical wizards (and annoys to death whenever anything breaks) are simply those who took the experience enough times. You've leveled up once with the first fix, let's diagnose this and attempt a fix, and maybe level up again...
</AUTOBUS SOAPBOX>
Your driving wheel is slipped. This happened on old Bachmanns for a different reason. On those, the axles were half-axles, connected by a brittle plastic sleeve. The sleeve cracked and allowed slippage. Your driver has slipped on its metal axle. The Mantua assembly is fixable without purchasing new OEM parts.
The loco probably started having trouble on curves when the driver started working loose. Wheel gauge has to be narrower than the track gauge. Too-wide wheel gauge and the loco will derail, and it will show up first on curves. Curves are curved, and rigid wheelbases are not. Too-wide wheelsets get pinched out.
You can press the driving wheel back on with some Loctite. The Loctite may help keep it in place if the fit isn't as tight as it should be. It looks like the insulated driver is the one that came loose, so no worries about losing electrical pickup on that wheel.
There is one further wrinkle to this learning experience: Quarter. Driving wheels are set with their crankpins rotated 90 degrees apart. This is needed to avoid 'dead spots' where all crankpins on both sides are in line with the axle centers. At this point, forces pulling on the rods could potentially rotate the wheel either way just as easily. This shows up in real life as a crank mechanism locking and binding. You can put together some Lego Technic gears with connecting rods to observe this in action.
At any rate, you will have to set these drivers in quarter. There are jigs for this but they cost a lot. You can do without the jig using a hard, flat surface, a steel straightedge, a reasonably accurate 90 degree square, and a reasonably accurate eyeball:
Hard flat surfaces can be a scrap piece of thick window glass (plate glass is best but modern window glass is probably close enough) or ground flat steel, stone, or iron. A piece of marble or granite countertop might well be flat enough.
Take all your driving wheel sets out and measure the good ones first, in your quartering setup. This will show you what the assembly should look like. Note that the quarter angle does not have to be exactly 90 degrees as long as it is the same on all driver sets.
Wheel gauge (spacing) is also important. If you don't have a NMRA sheet-metal gauge, measure what the other two driving wheelsets are with your 6 inch steel scale, and press yours to the same distance. That should be close, anyway. :)
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Posted - December 02 2014 : 11:51:16 AM
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Junk?! Just remember that the engine is almost 60 years old and you have no idea how it was stored and for how long. I hope it can be fixed. Worse case is that you have an awesome display engine. You can also part it out and get pretty decent money on the metal cab and pilot.
rich p
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Posted - December 02 2014 : 3:56:25 PM
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Hey Stephen, that locomotive is almost as old as I am - it deserves just a little pass here and there! Patience, my friend!
Look at it from another perspective: it is older than dirt yet can still be fixed. Try saying that about today's super-detailed to the nth degree plastic showboats when they are 50-odd years old!
Plus, at the same time you are gaining knowledge very few people will have.
Priceless!
http://tycodepot.com/
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Posted - December 02 2014 : 8:15:17 PM
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quote:Hey Stephen, that locomotive is almost as old as I am - it deserves just a little pass here and there! Patience, my friend!
Look at it from another perspective: it is older than dirt yet can still be fixed. Try saying that about today's super-detailed to the nth degree plastic showboats when they are 50-odd years old!
Plus, at the same time you are gaining knowledge very few people will have.
Priceless!
Originally posted by JNXT 7707Â -Â December 02 2014Â :Â 3:56:25 PM
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The only issue is convincing my parents to help me bring this thing to a hobby shop or someone willing to fix it, which they'd be extremely skeptical doing due to the fact that they think it's junk, the cost and whatnot. Until then, it truly is junk.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - December 13 2014 : 6:56:25 PM
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Anyway, I just got this thing to my local hobby shop and they stated that it'll be at least $25 total and that I should get it back within 4-5 weeks. Here's the card for it to prove it, I guess.
-Steve
"A lot of modellers out there who go to these train shows see broken HO stuff and go, 'This is useless' when, in reality, they can still be used for modeling whether it's as a prop on your layout or a cool project to make something old new again."
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Posted - December 14 2014 : 4:06:20 PM
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Teenager to teenager, a word of advice concerning this kind of thing. If the parents are complaining about some train-related thing of yours being a waste of money, just explain what happened to it and/or how to fix it, in enough technical detail that they get all glossy-eyed and go along with it. Works like a charm over here
And if all else fails, just insist that your money is your money, and if you want to spend it on what might look like rubbish, that's your decision, full stop. Lord knows I've been called out for bringing home boxcars that're missing ends... fallen apart... totally rusted out... crushed by a hammer... MOLDY... even one 40' reefer with 3 hatches, 1 ladder, mantua couplers, 6 spacer washers on each end, Athearn F7 trucks (!!!), and water damage.
And as for junk, your loco's FAR from junk. As several others have said, it must be kept in mind how friggin old this pacific is. Considering its age and how little it cost you, I'd say it's in pretty good shape. For example, I've got an old New One 0-8-0. It looks decent but pretty much can't be repaired (for reasons), but since it only cost me $10 I'd say all's well and I got a hella rad "shelf queen". Besides, it's not as though your cast pilot broke... then I might be a little more inclined to give up hope. Some mechanical repairs like this might be a pain in the a**, but they're doable... IMO it's when castings get messed up that things start looking bad. Anyhow, best of luck with your Pacific, man
--CRC
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